The VO Meter Episode 26, Trish Basanyi and Peter Bishop

The VO Meter… Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
Hello, everybody, and welcome to episode 26 of The VO Meter…
Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
And today is going to be a very special episode. We’re going to spend the whole time bashing Terry Daniel. Woohoo!
Take it, Terry.
No, not really, but a little bit. We’re excited to welcome our special guests, Trish Basanyi and Peter Bishop. Trish and Bish.
We’ll talk to them in just a minute. But first, we have our current events. Sean, what is happening with you?
Well, I just got back from Hawaii, some personal stuff. My girlfriend is moving back to Washington after two years abroad, or actually six years abroad. Why?
You ask this every time.
I know, I cannot fathom leaving the islands.
Oh, yes, for the ever-gray state. But she grew up in Washington, she’s been in Hawaii for the last six years, finishing college and working over there. And she just wants to be closer to family and some guy, I don’t know.
And some guy. And some guy. But yeah, so, I mean, we had a wonderful time up there.
And I swear this has something to do with Voice Over. I actually brought my travel rig with me because she was actually, usually when I go over there, I just kind of like fill her closet with whatever pillows and blankets are available. But like I said, she’s moving out.
So that’s just barren closet right there. So I brought what I usually bring, my little mic case. It’s got my microphone and my Audion 94 and all my accessories and sundries and that.
But I also brought the carry-on vocal booth from our friend of the podcast, Adil Aliyev, the owner of vocalbooth2go.com. He used to call it the carry-on vocal booth, but now they’re actually kind of changing the name to the VoMo or Voice Over Mo… Wait, yeah, Voice Over Mobile Booth.
I don’t know. They haven’t changed it officially, whatever, but marketing. I think it’s because despite the name, you better check it.
It’s a gamble if you’re going to have enough space to put that thing in there. But other than the size, I love it. I think it’s still one of the best sounding portable acoustic solutions out there.
Certainly one of the more affordable ones. And I definitely think you should check it out.
Yeah, it has been modified a little bit. And I actually spoke to Jeff, as he’s now going by, to see if we could possibly borrow one for our trip to MAVO. Because I think they’re going to be a sponsor again.
And they said yes. So when that comes around, I’m going to borrow one of the new models and review it on the fly while we’re doing our interviews at MAVO 2018. So that should be fun.
Very cool. Yeah, so like you said, they’ve had a few different iterations over the years. They have…
When I reviewed their first unit at MAVO… Wow, was it two years ago? Crazy.
Yeah, it’s crazy. But anyways, so when I first reviewed that unit two years ago, it was their second 2.0 version. And it made it a lot more aesthetically pleasing.
They used a little bit thicker blankets for it. And you got a lot more space. And then recently, they reissued it.
And they made something called their SSH, or surround sound hood. And it pretty much fixed the one problem that I had with it, or the one issue that I had with it before. And like most of these portable solutions, like say the PortaBooth or the chaotic eyeball, they don’t really have any treatment behind you.
So except for, I think the PortaBooth Pro does. It does have a little hood that’s tucked away inside. But anyways, so he went all out.
He made this sort of framed acoustic blanket. It’s the same kind of blankets they use for all their products. And it just kind of attaches to the back of the booth, goes over your head and creates a nice little space.
I would caution you depending on which mic you’re using, it can sound a little boxy. So you might need to like do a high pass filter or edit some of the low end out. But if your mic already has one, or if you’re in a particularly reverberant room, I think it’s a perfect solution for travel.
Yeah, that’s cool. And not to go too far off topic, but because they just announced it, I’m pretty excited about another product they have coming out. You may have seen they took their sound proofer booth off the market.
Oh, yeah. It’s like your acoustical vocal booth, but with the mass-loaded vinyl sheets inside. They took it off the market.
I’m proud to say partially because of me, because when I was talking, I actually tested one here, I think I’ve talked about in the episode. And I said to the owner, you know, if it just had a door, it would be really cool, the perfect solution for me, because I have my studio computer outside the booth. And anytime I have to go look at the actual screen, at least for a while, I do have a monitor in here now, but for the majority of my career so far, I had to run back outside to make any changes on the computer.
And I was opening the door, you know, 15, 20 times a session if I was doing a lot of editing.
Oh yeah.
So they went back to the drawing table and actually created one now that has a swinging door attached to it. And they’re about to re-release it. I just saw a video that they released this week from the factory in China, which is pretty a neat video.
If you get a chance, watch that at pokobooth2go.com. And I’m pretty excited for the relaunch.
Yeah, very cool. Cause I mean, it’s a good idea. And it would certainly be, or like unlike most acoustical booths, it does actually reduce some ambient noise a little bit.
It’s not completely isolated, but it is a nice idea for sure. And it certainly sounds good. I’ve never had an issue with how their products tend to sound when it comes to dampening reflections, but it’s like what?
That’s like a 40 or 50 pound slab of vinyl you have to move aside?
Yeah, each panel. It’s pretty heavy. It’s not as easy to set up as you might think.
I’ve done it several times now, both in my own house and at VO Atlanta, because whenever they set up at VO Atlanta, they say, hey, Paul, you go do it. So that’s a lot of fun. Do you have experience?
But it does take some time.
Yeah, that reminds me. They actually had, wasn’t it sort of what they use, like the Sound Proofer booth at VO Atlanta, just the really large one?
Yeah, that’s what we used. I say we because, as most of you know, I was on the technical team there. We used that as the booth where people were doing spots on the fly if they needed to get some work done while they were at the conference, and it worked out really well.
Yeah, I was really impressed. I know, I believe George Widom was kind of manning the audio engineering side for that, helping people make sure that it sounded good, but nobody complained, and it was pretty much booked throughout the weekend. It was pretty awesome.
Current events, other than that, just kind of doing my e-learning work. I actually tried my stint at just audio editing, my repeat client over at englishanyone.com, he put out a new audio book, so just like an hour long thing. So it was funny, we had a bit of a back and forth, and this is why communication is very important, guys, because he’s like, yeah, I need some audio book mastering.
I was like, okay, I can recommend someone, because that’s a little bit outside of my editing expertise. And then as we talked, he’s like, actually, I just kind of need someone to edit out mistakes, and more to like proof editing and stuff like that. He was like, well, why didn’t you tell me I can do that?
And so I did. And so I felt bad, because we had spent a week trying to find someone for him, and then we found out that something I could do, and then we did it. Although, Paul, I don’t know, I’m still at a kind of a three to one ratio, which isn’t terrible, which means it takes like three hours to edit one hour of audio.
But you audiobook narrators, man, just respect. If I ever pursue it professionally, because I do love the storytelling, I do love the narration aspect, but the editing just destroys my soul.
You know, I don’t do it much anymore. I pretty much outsource everything for audiobooks. I still edit e-learning and narration pieces, anything under an hour for the most part.
But anything that’s over an hour, I will send to several editors I work with because it just saves me so much time. Absolutely. At this point, if I can move on to one of my topics right now, I’m working on an audiobook that I picked up this week on one of the freelance sites at union rates.
Woohoo! So, ooh, maybe I shouldn’t have said that because now my editors will know how much I’m getting paid. But anyway, I’m getting the union rates on the narration and outsourcing the editing, which is about a sixth of that cost.
And it’s well worth my time to do that because I don’t have to do any of the editing. I can work on more projects at once. So I’m doing this three-hour book and sending everything out to be edited.
And I do it now even for royalty share books. If I have one that I think is going to do well, I will outsource that editing too because I just don’t have the time. I’m so busy right now with so many projects that I don’t have the time to work on editing.
I’d rather just keep working on the things that will make me more money in the long run.
Absolutely. And there are certainly things that you can do to speed up that process even more. Like I know Sean Pratt is a huge proponent of punch and roll recording.
I know a lot of people are. And that kind of brings me to another topic, though. If you’re interested in voice over or if you’re looking for…
I mean, Paul’s great at kind of having a multi-faceted voice over business. I know he casts a lot. And he’s just a great networker.
But if you have a facility with audio engineering and stuff like that, you can market yourself as a voice over editor and kind of network with voice actors that you want to work closely with and then practice editing their stuff. So that’s another way to build your business in that area as you kind of work in building your own voice over career.
Yeah, one of my audio book editors, I’ll give him a shout out, his name is Christopher Rain. And that is actually a pseudonym because he’s also an audio book narrator himself. But he’s doing a lot of editing of other people’s work while he has some downtime.
And I didn’t even know that wasn’t his name until like the third book we worked on. Wait a minute, who’s this guy sending me an invoice? So yeah, it’s a great way, like you said, to make money if it’s something you already have the skillset to do, then use that.
So yeah, but make sure it’s something you’re good at before because I mean, you’re dealing with someone else’s livelihood here. So make sure that you have some facility with it and you can get those tracks out efficiently and in a timely manner. But yeah, it’s just another option for expanding your business and being more than a, like sort of a one-stop shop.
So as far as a couple of the other things I’m working on, I am working on that three-hour book that has sort of slipped in this week. Well, I’m supposed to be doing two other nine to 10-hour books. I just finished one for Find Away Voices.
It was the second one in the series. It’s called The Balkan Network and it’ll be coming out pretty soon. I haven’t heard back from Find Away yet, but I don’t think there’s any issues.
And about two weeks ago, the first book I did for Find Away, The Nimble Dodger came out on Audible finally. It was out on a couple other of the other platforms like Scribid and Libro and Downpour, but it was released on Audible about two weeks ago. So go ahead and download that, please.
I would appreciate that. And then there’s a third book in that series from the same author that I’m supposed to work on in any minute now as soon as I can find some time. It’s called The Credible Dagger.
And they’re all three books in a series about the same cast of characters in parts of World War II and then the Gulf War. No, I’m sorry. What was the operation in the Balkans?
I actually can’t remember what it was called. The US version of it.
Oh, man, I can’t remember. So obviously not Desert Storm.
The ousting of Slobodan Milosevic basically is what we’re looking at, that time period, and the breaking up of the former Yugoslavia. And then the last one is a prequel that takes place in World War II. So those are a lot of fun.
Yeah, so it sounds like you’re doing a lot of… would that be historical fiction or…
Yes, exactly. I don’t think they’re real characters.
Well, it’s cool because I know you’ve been hitting the audio book pavement for several years now, so it sounds like you’re kind of honing in on the projects that really resonate with you.
Yeah, things that are sort of in my wheelhouse. It goes back to what we talked about so much is finding your niche and finding what you’re good at. And history, historical fiction seems to be a good fit for me as well as some of the darker macabre and horror things I’ve done.
So it’s a good fit for my voice.
Interesting. Yeah, you do have kind of a Vincent Price thing, if you will.
And then other than that, I have a couple of cautionary tales that I’d like to share with the audience about setting rates. And it fits in with a discussion that we have pretty much every couple of weeks about setting proper rates, knowing your worth and making sure that you stick to your guns. So I had a company who hired me for a session.
They told me it was a huge national company. And I said, great, it sounds fantastic. And they were going to pay me $500 for the session, just on web usage.
And that is not a great rate, at least for a big company like this. I won’t say the name, because ultimately I did not get it. But what happened was, this company, the production house, pitched it to me as a job.
And they said, here’s a session, we’ll do it this day, and we’ll pay you $500. And I said, okay, because it’s this company, I’d love to have them on my resume. Let’s do it.
So we did the session. They asked me for a retake, which should have been a red flag. And I said, okay, I’ll do that too.
And then a week went by where I did not hear back from them. So I finally heard back after following up, and they said, oh, sorry, we didn’t get back to you. The client ended up not liking the take, so we went with another voice.
We’ll pay you $100 for your effort. And I said, no. You do not know, you don’t understand how this works, apparently.
You sold this to me as a job, not an audition, not a spec read. This was a job. So you’ll be paying me in full for this.
And at first they didn’t respond back right away. Then they got back to me and said, okay, we understand where you’re coming from. How about we give you $200?
And I said, no, again, you told me this was a job. I’m not sure where you’re coming up with this idea that my time is not worth the money that you promised me. But just to make things go over easily, the lease I’ll accept is 300.
And we did settle on that, they paid me. And I’m sure now I’ll never hear from them again. But I felt good about sticking to my guns at least three quarters of the way and knowing my worth.
Absolutely. And yeah, don’t, like, I’m glad you’re, like, I never called you a pushover or anything. But yeah, you do need to stick up for yourself.
And sometimes you, like, and you have to educate clients and not be afraid to lose them if they don’t agree to what you’re offering. So I’m glad that it, for the most part, it was ended up favorably in your position, but unfortunately, it’s a real struggle these days to get to educate clients on what a proper rate is. And some people, like, unfortunately, there are different tiers of clients where some will never pay you more than, anything more than $100.
Like, they’re perfectly used to fiver rates. You know what I mean?
And sometimes it’s not just a small client. It may not just be a mom and pop shop. This particular case was a huge multinational children’s toy company.
And it’s so frustrating to see that rate come back.
Yep, yep. And it’s like, I mean, they’re savvy. They’re being sharks.
They’re trying to save money. And so that’s why it’s all that much more important to educate yourself on proper voice structures, or excuse me, on proper rate structures and stuff like that. And so, do a bit of a shameless plug for GVAA right now, but many people have benefited from our free industry standard rate guide.
So, I mean, you can go over to the Global Voice Academy website. You can check that out. It’s free to use.
However, if you would need specific support or you’d like negotiation advice or assistance, we do offer that as part of our VO Pro membership program. So, that’s all I’m gonna plug for that, but it’s a great service and you get a whole bunch of additional ongoing support and educational services that are just wonderful. Honestly, there’s nothing like it in the education, or the VO education market, I think.
And I know it’s hard. It’s hard to have that structure and say, this is it, I’m not gonna go below this point. But it really comes down to coming from a position of strength.
Whereas right now, I have a lot of work, thankfully, and I was able to make that decision. But I know it’s really hard when you’re staring at a bill and there’s no other money coming in, and you think, yeah, I’ll take that. What’s gonna happen is, it’s gonna set you up for a mindset in your own mind where you’re just gonna think that’s all you’re worth.
And I’ll give you a perfect example, because I did it again, almost, last week. I had another client who came to me with a promise of 2,000 hours of an e-learning project and pitched me at a rate of $100. And I did the math in my head and said, that’s a lot of money.
I could do that. So I took it. And I sat down and did the first couple of the sessions, and then after the fact, after I had signed a work-for-hire agreement with them, said, this is insane.
What am I doing? It was also because, again, I had a ton of other work coming in. I said to myself, I can’t finish this for this rate and do all the other things I’m supposed to be doing for other clients.
So I actually took it to our mutual agent at TAG, Jimmy Cobble, who, by the way, is still recovering from a recent health spell. So Jimmy, we wish you the best and hope you get well soon. And this was last week.
Of course, all the bad luck in the world came at once. So I was talking to Jimmy about renegotiating, and he said, yeah, that’s something that we can do for you. So they contacted the client and said, this is what it’s worth.
I actually went to the GVA rate guide and pulled that rate and said it was, I think, $750 for the e-learning rate and took it to the client. And the client said, maybe. But we did already agree to this rate, and we’d like to at least finish out this first set of modules.
So Jimmy and I both said, yeah, that’s fair, because we are kind of reneging on an agreement, at least that I made.
So just to make sure, because you’ve tossed out a couple of different numbers, was that a $100 versus $750 per finished hour?
Yes, per finished hour.
Okay.
So a huge gap there. And again, I did not have the faith in myself to accept the… or to go for the proper rate, and I caved.
But then came to my senses later. So anyway, we are going back to the client. We finished the first set of modules, which was five, total five jobs that I did for that $100 rate.
And now the client said, yes, we can renegotiate. Let’s talk sometime next week. So thankfully, Jimmy is getting better and is going to be back at work soon.
So next week, we’re going to talk and try and get that done to renegotiate it at a proper rate. And I’m sure it still won’t be the top of the guide, but at least we’ll get something more fair that’s more worth my time for doing the work.
Absolutely. And like, I mean, you certainly strive for that, but sometimes you do need to make compromises and the context is important. Some companies really can’t budget more than what they’re offering.
But like say, if it’s a project that you’re particularly interested in, you might be willing to take like a slight hit for that, but only you can make those choices. But one thing that I did want to kind of delve into a little bit more was this idea of not selling yourself short, especially when you’re starting out. Because a lot of people were like, oh, I don’t have experience.
I’m willing to work for exposure bucks. Like, please don’t do that ever. But there’s this idea, they’re like, oh, as I gain experience, I can raise my rates and stuff like that.
And there is an element of truth to that, but you really need to start pricing yourself at standard rates, because it’s an uphill battle to try and raise your rates as you do gain more experience. And honestly, if you’re getting clients, you’ve already proven that you’re voicing at a competitive level, so charge competitively. So many people think like, oh, I don’t have that many years of experience in the industry.
It doesn’t matter. It’s talent-based, not experience-based. So charge yourself…
And that conversation with older clients really sucks too. I can tell you from my experience this week, having that conversation with a client you’ve already told you’ll do the work at a lower rate is not fun. It’s a lot easier if you have an agent, but it’s still not fun.
Yep, yep. And sometimes, and a lot of talent will tend to raise their rates annually. So, or just kind of like, incrementally each year to kind of meet cost of living expenses and stuff like that.
And sometimes you might lose clients that way. But again, start in an acceptable minimum, and then you can start building your rates as your experience goes up. So please don’t go for fiverr rates, ever.
That pretty much wraps up everything for current events, but that brings us to our…
All right, so I’ll start off. I don’t have a purchase per se, but I have a, let’s say, reconfiguration of previous gear, which I’ve been known to do a lot also.
It could be like a retroactive Questionable Gear Purchase. Something you loved, and you’re like, oh, maybe I don’t need it.
And I’ll be the first to admit that I’ve come full circle on this, i.e. I’m a freaking hypocrite. But what I’ve been doing this week is using my 416 for everything, including audio books.
The reason behind it is so stupid. I should have just done this a year ago, or when I had a 415, I should have stayed with that, but regardless, now I have a 416, and it was my commercial and video game mic, and my SM7B was my narration mic, because I could sit down. But what I was finding, I was hearing so much background, so much mouth noise and nasal sounds out of the SM7B, even though it’s supposed to be not that sensitive, that when I was doing the audio books, I decided to just go to the 416 for everything.
So that’s what I’m using now.
Well, how closely were you working the SM7?
I’m sorry?
How closely were you working the SM7? Was that still from like five to six inches away?
Probably a little less, more like three or four. Not right on it, like a radio DJ would, but pretty close to it, because you had to be pretty close to it to get a good sound out of it. And I do have a Fethead plugged into it, but I was still getting…
I thought you said a Fethead. It’s like no need to self denigrate, Paul. Yeah.
The Fethead is an inline amp booster for the interface, and that did help with the sound, but I was still getting a lot of sounds from my head. I think it’s just the allergies this year. We’ve had so much rain on the East Coast.
You may have seen some of the historic flooding we had here in Maryland, and it’s made allergy season the worst in probably a decade. So that’s probably what’s contributing to it, but the hyper-sensitive direction or hyper-focused direction of the 416 helps with that. So I’ve gone back to my Wobble stool, which I also bought on a whim and haven’t used.
That was a questionable gear purchase. I think I mentioned it in an episode. I’m using the Wobble stool with the 416 to read off the monitor I have outside the booth and just use the 416 for everything.
And again, I know I’m a complete hypocrite because I’ve talked so many times about how I need to have two mics and I’ve shifted so many mic purchases, but that’s the essence of the show. Questionable gear repurchase.
Well, I mean, think about that. How many times have I gotten a Yamaha AGO3 and sold it again? At least twice.
But it happens. Last episode, I sold my TLM 103, and I’m sure everyone’s like, but I wasn’t using it for like eight months, and got a nice chunk of change for it. So, and I hear this again and again.
So many people are kind of downsizing their studio and usually just sticking with the 416 or going with like a, like say $300 mic over one of the industry standards. So, I mean, I know the guys on VOBS are saying this a lot now. It’s just like, the gear is so good.
It’s so, if it sounds good, it is good. So, it really, like we’re spoiled for choice these days. And like honestly, if you’re spending like 200 plus on a mic, chances are it’s gonna sound great.
And Paul and I are lucky that like our businesses have allowed us to get a 416. And they’re wonderful mics. And I know many people are like, oh, it’s not good for long form.
Not for everyone. I use it for e-learning and audiobook work all the time. No complaints.
I know fricking audiobook titan, Simon Vance, loves the 416. And so…
Bob Sauer uses one as well. Actually, Bob Sauer uses the 415. And yeah, same thing.
Are you sure about that? I’m almost positive it was a 416.
No, I’m not sure. But it’s one of the two. And either way, they both sound almost the same.
It would have that same complaint, so to speak.
Well, yeah. I mean, the 415, I think would be even better because I know a lot of people described it as warmer or more pleasant. But honestly, give it a shot.
I definitely recommend, if you’re at that level, because I actually had an interesting conversation with someone over in the Voice Over Camp group because they were working with a sub-$100 MXL mic and they had mentioned to one of the admins over there, hey, does anyone know about modding your mic or DIY mic projects? And somehow my name got dropped because I’m a mic nerd. But anyway, so they reached out to me and I’m like, you know, I’ve never actually bought a mic mod or anything like that.
I’m familiar with the people who do it, but I never bought it. And then he’s like, okay. But before he left, I was like, all right, what’s your problem?
And then so by the end of it, he’s like, oh, maybe I should just get a new mic. I was like, yeah, you think? Because it’s like you’re spending the same amount of money.
Instead of trying to mod a mic to get the sound that you want, just buy a mic that has the features that you want. Stop trying to make a, what is it, a silk purse out of a sozeer, you know?
Yeah, just shop around too. You can find them eventually. Like I have a great price on my 416.
Exactly, and like nowadays, you can get, like you can easily get a 416 or a TLM 103 for about 600 to $800, like just about $300 less than market price. So I mean, a lot of the 416 tends to go on sale at least once a year, especially around Christmas. And then the 103, you tend to find used in great shape for seven, like easily for 600 to $700 regularly.
Maybe a lot of failed rappers or vocalists who are dissatisfied with the mic, I don’t know. But their loss is your gain.
And for our listeners, please tell us what you think. We’d love to hear your comments in the comment section. I’m using the 416 right now for the pre-show, but I did use the SM7B when we recorded this interview a week ago.
So tell me what you think, which one sounds better?
And we’d love to hear about your questionable gear purchases or your sensible ones. Like we said, there’s so much new gear out there that we’d love to try ourselves, but we don’t come from old money. But we love hearing about gear.
We love talking about gear, as you know. So if there’s anything that you’d like to share in our comments or in a VO Meter schtick, go ahead and let us know.
So that’s it for me. Did you have any questionable gear purchases this month?
I actually just brought my laptops into a local PC repair guy because I wanted to make sure that they were all tuned up and basically do a clean install of High Sierra. So they’re both working in the same OS environment and all my peripherals will work with both. So that’s certainly important.
And this guy was great. I mean, he cut me a lot of local discounts, which was just awesome.
He paid you in fish.
What was that?
He paid you in fish, you mean?
Oh. Fish and grapes, right?
I mean, you’re paying him in fish.
I’m sure there’s like a Christian reference in there somewhere, but anyways…
I’m thinking about Pacific Northwest. I know you’re not actually in Seattle, but…
Oh, paid in salmon?
Yeah, my enduring vision of Seattle is the fish market and people throwing fish across the counter. Fresh fish, we catch them, you buy them.
But anyway, only in Pike Place. But anyways, it completely derailed me. But other than that, I’m just kind of looking for it.
I’m kind of future planning right now. I’m thinking of adding some additional treatment to the Blanket booth. I’d like to pick up some Audimute panels because they’re about the same price as the Vocalboot to Go blankets, but they’re a little bit more aesthetically pleasing.
And since I do do a lot of YouTube videos for myself and for GVAA, I thought it’d be nice to have something that was a little bit more pleasant to look at than like white blankets and PVC behind me. Because professional perception is important. But speaking of gear right now, last thing we’ll talk about.
So I mentioned that my computers are at the shop right now. I’m actually using my phone to record the podcast. It’s crazy.
We’re using the Twisted Wave app to actually record the audio. And meanwhile, we’re simultaneously running Zoom, which is a video web conferencing app. And the audio is going into my 416, into the SBL Creon.
So it’s a powered interface. So it actually has like an AC plug. And then it’s iOS compatible.
So I got like a little camera connection kit adapter connected to a USB going into the phone. And everything is going through that. And it sounds awesome.
So…
Yeah, I was actually surprised that worked so well. I didn’t think you’d be able to pull it off, honestly.
Yeah, yeah. Well, we did spend about 20 minutes trying to troubleshoot and figure out what would work.
Nobody needs to see behind the curtain.
I know. But anyways, no, it’s fun to have those troubleshooting things. I don’t know if I would recommend this for like a directed session, but it’s always nice to have those options available.
And I know a friend of the podcast, Rob Marley, he, when he started recording Voice Over, he had a really noisy computer. So he actually set his studio up around a little netbook, like a tablet, in his closet. So he would record to the tablet, because it’s silent, and then he would just offload it to a computer and then edit there.
I did the same thing, actually, when I first started.
Yeah, it’s a great solution.
I used a little Dell Hybrid PC, tablet clamshell removable keyboard type of thing.
And if you want to go like super lightweight, there are a number of great USB and IOS microphones that you could just plug directly into your tablet or device or whatever you’re using. I know Apogee has, or a lot of people are really happy with the upgraded Apogee Mic or the Mic Plus. Looks pretty slick and they fixed some of the problems that were in the earlier models, like they had inline monitoring and a little bit more control for it.
So I personally had a bad experience with Apogee, but that might have just been a lemon. So I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt. And then you’ve got the Sennheiser MK4, the Blue Raspberry, iRig Mic Pro.
Like we said, there’s so much gear out there. Try something that interests you, send us some samples, and then we can tell you if it’s good or not.
So we’ll get to our interview segment with Trish and Bish in just a moment. But first, we’re gonna continue the theme of bashing on Terry with a VO Meter stick from Jordan Reynolds.
Okay, everybody, it’s time for the VO Meter shtick.
What did he say?
It’s time for the VO Mea… Oh, nevermind.
The VO Meter shtick?
Oh, got it. Yo, Jordan Reynolds here. I was asked to record something super, super interesting for the VO Meter podcast.
But first of all, I just needed to also jab at Terry. Apparently he couldn’t make this interview with Trish and Bish because, well, he’s too busy, what, training for his next marathon and probably rejecting all of our posts in the Voice Over Pros Facebook group. Let’s face it, he’s a jerk.
No, really, he’s a busy man and we’re all busy. And I know I’ve definitely prevented plenty of Voice Over Cafe episodes from being scheduled or recorded or completed. So we’re all guilty, all right?
I love you, Terry. I had to really think for a while, I’m like, what interesting story. I don’t have any stories where it’s like, Jordan, that take was great, but this time, could you actually just, let’s see, remove your left sock and tie it around your throat like it’s a necklace?
All right, rolling, take three. That would be a cool story, but that was a lie. There is a site, which I’m sure a lot of you are aware of, called freesound.org.
And on here, I spent a lot of time, not only because I was getting into audio and voiceover at the same time, back in the day, which is around 2009, 2010, almost 10 years ago. Like crap, I’m getting old. So, but there’s a lot of people on there who have requests for sound effects, and there’s plenty that require voice.
So I spent a lot of time on here because it was the only place I could like practice without having to buy a membership anywhere. And I would fulfill requests is what it’s called. So I’m gonna share a few of my samples of me fulfilling people’s requests.
These are pretty much one-liners that people would ask for a few takes for, and I would do a lot of takes. So here’s a good little sampling of some DJ drops and random lines of dialogue in games. Enjoy for a moment and I’ll chime back in.
Wow, first of all, you hear the mouth clicks in there? Oh my God, I’m so sorry, but hey, you gotta learn somewhere, right? And every time I’d upload one of these free voiceover requests on Freesound, there was this one guy and he was the mouth click police, no joke.
He took his job very seriously. And my audio was decent compared to most people, but I was really new with audio. He would always download my voiceover samples that weren’t even related to his project and then clean up the audio, like fix plosives and especially mouth clicks.
And he’d always be like, re-posted previous voiceover clip was full of mouth clicks and was purely unacceptable. All right, moving on to the second best performance of my life, here we go. Your arcade radio.
Your arcade radio. Your arcade radio. Oh, good thing I gave him that super robotic one there at the end.
That was probably really useful for them when they wanted a supernatural read. Your arcade. All right, and one more.
One five seven lounge. One five seven lounge. One five seven lounge.
Oh yeah, this is how I talk. I’m so sexy. So these were in the early days and we all start there, right?
Oh, and again on this one, let’s see. I’m sparing you from the… About 19 more takes of that one line.
Yeah, point being it’s totally cool to just go for it and do tons of practice reads. But as you could hear, I was trying to force my voice into something that I’m not. I’m not this suave, hey, hey, hey guy.
I wanted to do that and it’s fun for character work, but in strictly commercial, which is where a lot of us are going to work in or training or even corporate, they don’t wanna hear a put on voice. How I’m just chatting with you right now is what most projects want. So if you’re first getting started and practicing on your own, cause maybe you can’t afford coaching yet, which is obviously the position I was in there.
And at that time I was in my early 20s and probably like all dudes in their early 20s, I was quite insecure and had to make up for it by talking like this. So moral of the story, just be you. That’s what most people want.
We all have something interesting about us that makes us us. And we gotta figure out how to bring that to the microphone. I have to work on it every day, trust me, I have to try not to sound too polished.
But when you get comfortable in your own skin and with your own natural voice, man, people are gonna hear that in your auditions and want to work with you. All right, summer’s here, I’m getting sweaty and gnarly in the booths, so I should probably check out before you guys can start smelling me through this MP3. Just keepin it real.
Thank you, Paul and Sean, for doing this awesome podcast and it’s an honor, seriously. Peace.
It’s almost like a roast of Terry Daniel. I mean, you’re probably never gonna listen to it, but if you do listen to it, Terry, we love you, man. I’m sure you’re gonna be a good sport about this.
So in case you still have some ego left, better hold on to it, because we’ve got some tough love coming up from Peter Bishop and Trish Basanyi coming up next.
All right, everybody, and welcome to the interview portion of this episode of The VO Meter. And we are really excited to have two people that, at least in my mind, are idols of mine in the industry. And I’m sure Sean has some fun feelings of them as well.
I know they’ve taught us so much, both virtually and in person in a lot of cases. So first, let’s welcome Trish Basanyi. She is a full-time voice talent since 2004 and is a host of another podcast that you may have heard, a co-host at least, The Voice Over Cafe.
Also from The Voice Over Cafe, we’re featuring Peter Bishop, a Londoner living in New York since the mid-90s. He’s a full-time voice talent and also vice president of the World Voices Organization. So welcome to the both of you.
Let’s talk a little. How are you doing?
Oh, thanks.
I’m great, Paul. Thank you. Hi, Sean.
Hey.
Thanks for having us on.
Absolutely. Now we’ve gotten like what? Three-fifths of the VO Cafe.
We just need Jordan and Sean to join at some point.
Well, and Terry, if you want to count him.
No, we’ve had him on the VO Cafe before.
Good luck with naming him now.
Oh, that’s what you meant? Okay.
Yeah, we’ve had him on, although it was the first time we had to use the sensor button, so it was a little dicey.
Oh, oh, me and Bishop will work that one out, too.
It has to be stated that the rest of us were a little miffed that he came on your podcast, but trying to pin him down to do his own podcast is a little more difficult.
Yeah, guys, we haven’t done a show in a year. It’s been a year, almost exactly. It was last May, the last time we actually did a show, and so there was this joke going around that because we host the Voice Over Cafe Mixer, there were the sponsors on it, that we do more parties than we do shows a year.
I don’t see this as a criticism.
What’s the problem?
The standard joke, we used it for a while. Well, we say it’s a joke, but it’s actually the truth. Terry spends most of his time in rehab.
This is going exactly as I hoped it would.
So I’m glad.
I was talking to another colleague, and they said, you should introduce Terry. And I said, I think they’ll talk enough about Terry without me having to do it.
So everybody listening, what we need you to do, if you really want to listen to another Voice Over Cafe podcast, is actually email Terry and tell him to get his ass in gear and actually meet us for a show. It’s one hour out of a year, literally the last year, that we can’t seem to pin him down. So if you guys want to hear another show of The Voice Over Cafe, then email Terry Daniel and just tell him what’s up.
In all seriousness, you guys were the inspiration for this show, at least for me, when I was looking for, when I was talking about doing a podcast.
Well, when I was looking for a partner, I said to Sean, I really enjoyed The Voice Over Cafe. I’ve learned so much from them, and I’d like to pay it forward. And that was the whole thrust of this show, was to help people that were in a similar situation as we were.
Starting out in the business, now it’s been a few years, so we’re not in the exact same position. But trying to pay it forward because of all the information we gather from you guys.
As a serious comment, that’s nice to hear, because one of the things that’s important to me anyway is the whole thing about community. And I hate the phrase giving something back. It’s too cliched and often gets misused.
But seriously, the reason we do the cafe when we do it is because we just enjoy doing it. And if people get something out of it, that’s great. I mean, I think we’d still do it even if we had like five listeners.
And one of those would be Terry because he never hears the show, because he’s never on it.
Well, because Sean Caldwell fills in for him. We’ve had him fill in occasionally a few, well, several times actually as host. Because I personally, I’m the terrible host.
I cannot keep things in line. Sean is good about keeping things moving and Terry’s really good at that too. So that’s why I kind of hesitate taking the show over and just, because Terry occasionally just say, well, guys, just do the show without me, because I can’t today.
And there have been times where we’ve tried to do that and I’ve tried to take the reins and it just doesn’t work as well. Because Terry just keeps things kind of moving forward and I tend to get stuck on, it’s like herding cats. I mean, seriously, especially when six of us or five of us are on the show at the same time.
But when everybody’s got a different opinion and we like to go through all of the discussions and sometimes it just winds up getting too long-winded and we wind up with something that’s completely all over the map. And then I don’t even, I’m not even comfortable producing it. That’s why what?
We have an expression in the UK. I’ve never heard it over here, but you probably have it as well. There’s no show without Punch.
It’s a reference to Punch and Judy shows and the cafe isn’t really the cafe without Terry because I don’t feel comfortable insulting Trish. I’m certainly comfortable insulting Terry. You need a foil.
We all like to insult Terry.
That’s his role as his raison d’etre.
It is. He’s kind of the punting bag, but he kind of asks for it sometimes.
As much as I wanted to make this the Vash-Terry Hour, I did have some actual topics to talk about. The way I want to do this was sort of a roundtable discussion about general topics about the voiceover business in general, and then some current events, things that we may want to talk and discuss. First of all, since our audience, a lot of them still are newbies, I hate that word and I promise I wouldn’t use it after episode one, but I slip every now and then.
So anyway, a lot of our audience is newbies, and they’re looking for information about how to get started, what equipment they need. So let’s start there. Beck, if you can remember that far, Peter, when you were starting in the business, what are the things you think you need, first and foremost, to start a VO career?
Well, first of all, everyone’s situation is different. Everyone brings something different to the table. Now, in the early 70s, because it would be in the early 70s, get me, I was a failed musician basically because I can’t play to save my life.
So I went on to the engineering side and, you know, was having fun recording the bands. So I knew my way around SM58 dynamic, LDCs, phantom power, mixing desk, revox tape recorders, tape, splicing blocks and everything like that. So I bought all that engineering, and I was an engineer anyway, into it.
So the tech thing to me was, it was a no brainer. It was just, oh right, I need the right mic, the right preamp and some recording software. And that was it.
It was as simple as that. It was not having to think about it. So that was the easy part for me.
Getting into it was simply because I was in an environment where I was supported. The whole follow your dreams thing. I still have a little wooden plaque given to me.
And the environment I was in, we had an actor who was trying and has gone on to quite reasonable success. And I was told, just go for it. And I also brought in a history of corporate speaking and that sort of thing.
I can string two words together in the right order and make them sound reasonable. So I brought that with me, my technical background, and what I needed to do more than anything was learn the business, not learn the tech or actually learn how to speak, really, to be honest. So it was because of a supportive environment and just being told to get off my ass and bloody do it.
That’s the short version.
Trish, what about you? What do you think is absolutely necessary if you’re going to start either when you did or in today’s world?
The landscape was so different when I started than it is now. But I mean, nowadays, it’s so… I mean, the equipment is so much cheaper, and that seems to be a real attractive thing for a lot of people, and that’s unfortunately the first thing that they go for.
They’re like, all right, I’m going to be a voice over talent, so I need to go out and buy a microphone.
Yeah, guilty.
And that’s not really… I mean, yeah, you’ll need one, but you kind of need the training first. And for some reason, people tend to look at this business as like a get rich quick scheme, and it’s not.
They’re like, oh, I’m just going to talk, and people are going to throw money at me. And it doesn’t… Yeah, it’s not…
They find out quickly that it’s not really that simple. And so I would say, I mean, yeah, definitely get training first. Like, you have to.
It’s just, you know, because you’re up against people that have a lot of experience. And, you know, no matter where you are in your career, you’re going to still need training because trends happen. You know, when I…
I remember when 9-11 happened, and it was… I wasn’t full time yet, but I was doing voice overs. And I was actually…
That was right before I got my very first commercial demo produced. And I was working with a coach. I worked with her for a whole year before I decided that I was ready for my demo.
And when 9-11 happened, all of a sudden, all the commercials started to get a little more somber. They had a different feel to them because the country was in such turmoil at that point that it was… it wasn’t something that you wanted to be…
You know, there wasn’t a lot of commercials and whatnot that was really happy and joyful because of the feel, the general feel of the country at that point.
Couldn’t have fun anymore, right? A perfect example. Do you remember the Real American Heroes campaign from Budweiser?
I think it was Budweiser. They actually changed that after 9-11 because they were afraid it would offend first responders. And maybe there’s some truth to that.
First responders, police officers, firefighters, because those are real American heroes. So it became real men of vision, I think, and it just failed after that.
They put a lot of movies at the time as well. A lot of feel-good movies were due for release. They got pulled and held back about 18 months or two years.
I was working in radio, and there were songs that we pulled from the playlist because they were too… They either mentioned… We actually pulled Tuesday Morning from Linnard’s…
from Skinnerd. I think it was Skinnerd, Tuesday Morning, because 9-11 happened on a Tuesday morning. So it was like we actually pulled it from the playlist because it might stir up feelings.
You know? So we were… You know, yeah.
So anyway, going back to the original… my original point was that trends change in the business. And sometimes fairly rapidly.
And so… and sometimes it’s a voice type, and sometimes it’s a feel, it’s an energy, just styles in the business change. And that’s why you always…
you always need to keep up on it. And so that’s why you need a coach, no matter where you are in your career, to kind of keep on that… you know, keep on those trends and stay relevant.
So, you know, that’s my biggest advice, is don’t go out and buy equipment right away. Make sure you get the training. Do a ton, ton of research on the business.
Just be a sponge for information and listen to the people that give you advice that know what they’re talking about. Don’t listen to the people in your family that are not… that are probably not in the business.
Talk to somebody that’s in it, listen to them, and try to really take heed and advice on what you need to do.
Oh, thank you both so much for that.
I want to cycle back to something Trish said there, and it’s also to one of my earlier points, is what do you bring to the table? Being a niche talent, a Brit in New York, basically, I’ve done a few bits and pieces, yes, but I can’t usually get arrested for commercial work where you have to be current and trendy and on top of your game and have a killer demo that’s no more than 30 seconds old. You’ve got to be that current.
I was going more for the corporate market because I knew that’s where my strengths lay, e-learning, corporate, and then you try for anything else and develop those skills as you go along. But for anyone starting out now, you can’t shotgun, I don’t think. I think you have to decide with help of people that know what you’re good at.
You may really want to do commercial work, but you may have a perfect e-learning voice. And when you do commercial, I don’t mean to be disrespectful for anyone, but the last thing the commercial world needs at the moment is another soccer mom. And that’s almost a cliche.
So maybe decide what market you want to go into. Where do your strengths lie? A good coach and good advice will help there.
Because when you start, generally speaking, you don’t know what you don’t know. And you’ve got to find help.
Well, in my opinion, you have to start somewhere. But in my actual experience, it was actually the opposite of what Bish is saying. And for me, my very first coach told me that she heard…
She told me I had a newsy voice, meaning I was good for journalism and news type, more official type things. And I actually landed a couple of months later, I landed a campaign for the Trump Taj Mahal in Atlantic City where I was playing a party girl. And so it was literally…
They heard something on my demo that they really liked, and it was fun and bubbly, and that’s what they hired me for. And honestly, I get hired for the snarky stuff, because that’s where my natural voice is, but I’m able to fake the kind of fun, bubbly…
It’s not fake, Trish, it’s called acting.
Right. But it’s not my natural personality. I’m kind of a little more…
Oh, you’re fun and bubbly all the time….
sarcastic. Well, no, I mean, but yeah, but I’m not like a giggly, like super giggly type of girly… Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
I’m just saying, it’s just not my personality. So anyway, so it’s good to have a goal, like if it’s something you really want to do, but listen also to the market and what the market is saying to you once you start booking work. Because if I had listened to my first coach, I probably wouldn’t have even gotten the opportunity to work with the Trump Taj Mahal.
So it was something that… and they were a great account. They were with me for 10 years.
Do they pay you? No, no political. So yeah, they were a 10 year account and until literally they closed their doors when they went out of business or whatever a couple of years ago, I was still doing stuff for them.
So listen to them, I mean be open to other things. You may really want to do audio books or medical learning, medical e-learning, whatever, but listen to the market and listen to what people are responding to.
One thing you left out there Trish was that you did have a little bit of radio experience. So a lot of people when they first get in front of a mic are afraid of it, but if you’ve done radio, you learn that the mic is just a tool. A lot of people use the mic when they first start.
They’re talking to the mic, and that’s wrong. You talk to everyone on the other side of the mic. Too many people…
I mean, addressing the mic is one thing. You’ve got to have it in the right place, but it has to be transparent.
Yeah, and radio… I mean, it’s a totally different mindset. Being a DJ, there’s a ton of radio DJs that are now trying to get into voiceover, because they have that voice.
But unfortunately, that’s not all it takes these days to be a voice talent. So they’re learning, and it was a big deal for me. I remember…
I wasn’t in radio for that long when I started pursuing voiceover, but one of the first things I ever said to my second coach, who wound up being my commercial coach who did my demo later, I said something about, well, yeah, I’m a DJ. And she pointed to me, she looked at me, she’s like, never repeat that to anyone in the business.
And you’re head in shame.
Yes. Because I was like, oh, my ego was up there. I was like, yeah, I’m on the radio, and I’m making…
whatever. And so there is an ego to it, but it’s your natural… There’s a ton of DJs that, yeah, they talk differently into the mic, the projection is different.
They don’t know how… I mean, if you hear the radio ads from each station that the DJs are producing with their own voices, they all sound the same. They don’t read copy any differently from a radio ad, not from a sandwich shop to a car dealership.
It’s going to be this… yeah, it’s going to sound exactly the same. They don’t know how to translate copy.
Yeah, exactly, the nuances are not there.
They don’t know how to be conversational, one of the buzzwords nowadays.
Yeah, and that’s what’s the hardest transition. It’s like you have to get out of your own head to do VO. And a lot of DJs think that they’re just…
they’re doing it because they have this great voice, where it’s not like that anymore. It used to be, but there’s so many people with great voices that don’t know how to read copy.
It’s not a one-sided conversation. You’re not just shouting out to the masses. You’re trying to communicate with them.
And also, you don’t have to have a great voice in the classic way. What you have is an instrument. You need to know how to play it or be fashionable.
The one I always quote is, Gilbert Godfrey gets a lot of VO work. Has he got a great voice? No, but it’s a character voice.
People will buy anything if it’s done well. That’s the thing. So you don’t have to have a classically good voice in some genres.
If you’re doing radio spots and whatever, be Mr. Character, but do it well. Because the casting directors know what’s good and what isn’t. And take acting lessons.
Awesome. Speaking of training and transitioning from that journeyman to actually working voice talent, how do you know when, say you’re working with a coach, you’re actually taking your guys’ advice, and you’re working with a coach for maybe half a year to a year or longer, however long you need, when do you know it’s the right time to produce a demo? And how do you go about it?
That’s a difficult one, because there are a lot of people making a lot of money out of making demos. You’ve got to go by word of mouth with a demo producer who, when you approach him, is just as likely to turn around and say, you’re not ready yet, and he’s not interested in making the quick sale. There’s a real danger with getting a demo out there when you’re not ready, because it’s this whole thing.
I think Bob Bergen said it once on Facebook. You only get one chance to make a first impression. If you send out a substandard demo because someone’s talked you into it, you’ve stumped up 500 bucks, and the guy down the road has knocked you up a commercial demo, it’s going to hit agents or whatever, and it’s going to go straight in the bin.
Then two years later, you’d be surprised. They’ll remember your name, and they won’t even listen to your second demo. So it’s difficult, but you need an honest opinion about it.
It’s not when you think you’re ready, it’s when someone with good ears thinks you’re ready.
And your coach, again, if you’re in this business, you should have a coach no matter where you are, especially at the beginning. So your coach, unless they’re also a demo producer, which I worked with them separately early on, but those were the roles back then. My coach was not the same place that produced my demo, so she was honest with me.
And also it was me too. I knew I could get better. I didn’t want to just cut a demo to get out there.
I wanted to be the best I could be, because I was in the New York market when I first started. I was promoting myself and trying to get agents in New York, in the city. So I knew that I had to really be on my game to be able to compete with the current market at the time.
So, you know, to me, listen to your coach. Your coach should let you know, you know, when you’re ready to cut a demo and when you’re comfortable.
Also, don’t forget, there are plenty of markets now, and it’s become… I think it’s a little silly. Some people have like 10 different professionally produced demos for every genre.
You may be ready for corporate, but not commercial, because you haven’t quite tuned in to the current voice. But if you can put together a good e-learning or corporate demo, that may come at a different time than your commercial demo, or the other way around. You don’t have to saturate the market with three or four different demos.
If you concentrate on one thing, you get there with that, you can put that one out there. Then maybe follow up with the one that’s taking a little more time to perfect. So it’s not all or nothing.
You can have a drip campaign on it.
I would say if you’re brand new, and you’re looking for advice on whether something you’ve done yourself or something you’ve had done by a demo producer that you may have questions about yourself, like you did it and you’re having second thoughts, send it to a colleague that you know is well respected in the business. A lot of you have actually sent me demos already. They’re just out of the blue and said, hey, what do you think of this?
And those people know, I’ll be honest, and tell you whether it’s any good or not. And I’m not even the most experienced, but once you’ve been in the business for three or four years, you can tell whether something is marketable based on what you hear from your colleagues and what your own demos are if you’re working in the business.
I will do it, but I hate it. I am not the arbiter of whether someone else is saleable. I can pick up on diction things and this stuff that sounds wrong to my ears, but I’m not the guy with the checkbook.
So I’m very reluctant to say to someone, yeah, you’re ready. That’s great. Or that’s not quite ready yet, because I’m not a buyer and I don’t trust my own ears when it comes to someone else’s livelihood.
Yeah, I should caveat what I said by what people mostly ask me about is their studio space and whether what they’re playing is… Right, and I usually send a disclaimer saying, I’m not a coach, I’m not going to critique your performance, but your space does sound like garbage, is what I’ll do.
Would you stop using the bathroom?
One other follow-up question I had about demo producers, do you think there’s only a few that are really worth going to? Because we all have friends and colleagues that do demo production, and it seems that there’s really a small cadre of people that are referred to over and over again. Do you think that’s the end-all, be-all?
Or do you think you can get a demo from those that may not be all over the Facebook groups?
Facebook isn’t the be-all and end-all of VO. Plain and simple, you cannot live and die by Facebook. Facebook is a small section of people.
You get a VO group with 10,000 people in it, and everyone’s an expert. Social media is an interesting tool for being social. I have my doubts as to whether something like Facebook can do anything but harm to someone’s profession.
There, I said it.
I would have to agree. You know, I probably… Well, I don’t know how much flak I’m going to get for this, but I haven’t paid to have a demo produced in a really long time.
I actually do my own with snippets of work that I get back from clients, and I just produce my own… I understand why people go and have a new one done and refresh it or whatever, and spend some places are charging $5K for a demo, and I’m not saying that you don’t get your money’s worth. You certainly can.
There are big names in our Facebook.
Circles that I know are the real deal, and they’re great coaches, they’re great demo producers. Is it something that you absolutely need to do? In my opinion, no, but not so much that you don’t need a demo producer at all, but especially when you’re getting started, obviously.
Like I said, my first demos I had produced by someone else, and it worked out for me. But there’s certainly demo producers that I’m sure that are good that are not on Facebook. But at least with the Facebook circles, in the community, in the voiceover community, you have people that are involved in those circles that have used those people and have gotten results.
And so you have that personal connection to people that you know that have used that demo producer and have had good results.
There’s a lot of producers out there that don’t go on to social media because they’re too busy because they’re producing demos over time simply by word of mouth and recommendation. They don’t need to market themselves because their work markets them.
Right. And, Juan, there’s plenty of voice talent that do the same thing. There’s people in this business that make a living doing what we do but we’ve never heard of because they’re not part of the online community.
And they’re just doing their own thing.
I envy them sometimes. Because social media is such a time sink.
It really is. Yeah, but it’s such a lonely business, though. You know, it’s so isolating to be in a room…
I’ve seen the pictures.
Well, that’s at night, though. Like, I go out a lot during the week at night. But, you know, during the day, I’m here all day by myself.
And it’s, you know, without Facebook, I would freaking go bonkers. It’s like, you know, you need some sort of water cooler. You know, I’ve always told people, Facebook is our water cooler.
Like, those, you know, we’re at our home offices. And, yeah, for the people that live with other people, have kids, families, whatever, but I live by myself. If it wasn’t for online, I would go berserk.
Yeah, but it gets a bit old sometimes. Sometimes I think 50% of my feed is people trying to sell me stuff.
Yeah, I get that feeling too. Just to go off script for a second, do you think Facebook in particular is going the way of MySpace? Because my feeling is, and it may be this algorithm thing that I haven’t figured out, but I see the same ten posts every couple of hours from the same ten people.
And I know there’s people that have opinions that I value, for instance, Bish. I haven’t seen him post anything on Facebook in months, and it’s probably by design. But I feel like there’s just not enough content there anymore other than pictures of cats and people’s kids.
Or the same questions being asked again and again because nobody uses the search function.
What mic should I get? Should I sit or stand?
But I want answers from this week, not last week. And Trish, I totally agree. I mean, when I was living in Japan, that’s when I started.
And so, of course, my only access to other talent for information and trying to establish a connection was through Facebook. And I wonder if people… If you’re on Facebook that much, how much VO are you doing?
But what I love about what Trish and Bish have been talking about besides from just blowing open so many misconceptions about the business is that, again and again, you don’t take anything at face value. You’re presented with a resource, but you still do additional research, and you really delve deeper into that, and then make your own choice. And I love that.
It’s like so many people are looking for the shortcut, the right answer, and there’s not one. It’s really dependent on the research you do and finding something that works out for your situation. And I don’t know if that segues too much into our next question, but I’m going to do it anyways.
So you’ve got the training, you’ve got the demo. Where do you find work? Are pay-to-plays still an option?
Is that acceptable? Do you go the agent route? Do you have to go the agent route?
Where do people look?
Trish, do you want to go? I’ll rat one forever on this one, so I’ll let you go.
Sure. The pay-to-plays minus v.com, to me, are still certainly relevant. Vidalgo, and you have Voice 123, and there’s a…
I mean, honestly, when it comes to… I’m not going to tell other people where to find work. If you can’t find work, you’re going to have a really hard time in this business.
It’s everywhere, but you have to learn where to look. And, you know, honestly, sometimes it’s just as simple as plugging in, you know, voice over, voice overs into Google. It’s like just, you know, do a search.
There are plenty of ad agencies and production companies that hire talent directly, getting on rosters. That’s how I built my business, was calling, direct calling, you know, cold calling, basically, ad agencies and production companies to ask if they accepted voiceover demos, because there still are a good amount of them out there that have their own in-house talent rosters. And they will, there’s no, and most of the time, the beauty of that is that they hire you multiple times.
They keep you on a regular list and they submit your regular generic demo to clients when a client comes to them and says, we want this kind of voice for our campaign. And they present your demo and they’ll just email you and go, hey, client chose you. There’s no auditioning.
It’s fantastic. It’s like there’s no auditioning for the script. They like your voice, they want to use you, and that’s it.
When can you have it done and how much? And that’s most of the emails that I still get. So if you need practice in auditioning, then the pay to plays are really good to do that way because they’re just constantly coming in.
And it’s a good way to just get comfortable if you’re just starting out. It’s a good way to get comfortable on a microphone and start recording and editing and just starting to really practice doing all the things that you would do if you were full-time. So to me, it’s everywhere.
I’ve gotten jobs off of Craigslist. Yes, you have to be very specific and very finicky with what you even.
Sure, but honestly, I’ve gotten five-figure jobs from Craigslist ads and Twitter, or not so much five-figure jobs, five-figure clients. I did get one five-figure job on Twitter a while back, and it was great. It’s nice.
Most of the stuff that you’re going to do is going to be a couple hundred bucks, 500 bucks, 1,000 bucks here and there. But yeah, I mean, honestly, it’s just as simple as a Google search. Do a search for voices or voice talents, and see what comes up, and see who’s listing, and then you email that website.
If it’s a list of voiceover talent, then you email them and ask if they’re open to receiving new demos, and see if they will add you to their list. It’s not as hard as it sounds.
Bish, any thoughts?
I agree. I have lots. You can take two VOs.
Let’s say they’re at the top of their game, six-figure VOs. One will do everything via an agent. One may not even have an agent, because he does exactly what Trish is talking about.
Agents are useful. They can find you a route to work. They’re a necessity if you’re union, obviously.
But if you’re not speaking specifically from a non-union point of view, most of the work for non-union talents comes from their own marketing efforts. And they may be 10, 20% from agents. That’s my feel anyway, with discussions I’ve had.
Pay-to-plays are here. There are a couple of honest ones. V123 has its weird rating systems and stuff, which I hear they’re getting rid of.
But they’re straightforward. They’re just a middleman, just a matchmaker. Armin is a rock star with Bidalgo.
He’s really involved with the community.
And he’s hosting this call, by the way. Thank you again, Armin.
And he’s hosting this call. Yeah, he gave Bidalgo a call to the world. This is not a plug for Armin.
Oh, bugger. We’re shills for it, it’s okay.
Not a shameful one, anyway.
We cannot ignore them and hope they go away, because they’re not going to go away. But I will echo what Trish said about production houses. So much of my work comes from being on production house rosters.
You’re on the roster, they want you to get the work. They don’t want to outsource it. They want to keep their customer happy, so they’re going to present you.
They’re going to present you well. I had one the other day. It was an audition, rush audition.
Did it one day, got to call the next day about five o’clock. It’s like, oh, that audition you did yesterday, client likes you. You’re going to be ready in 15 minutes.
It’s duh. Can I get the script, please? And that was it.
Done and dusted. One big panic. But the audition was, the production house came through, basically said, you’re one of three people.
So, oh, these are good odds that have been shortlisted. So you work with people that want to work for you. So that’s agents, production houses.
Everyone gets their slice of the pie. A production house or an agent will earn it, and it will be good for everyone. You’ve just got to watch the people that want all the damn pie and just give away the crumbs.
Quick question about production houses. Quick question about production houses. My strategy up until now has been to scatter spray and just contact anybody and everybody I can find online, and if they add me to the roster, great.
I’ve been pretty successful, but it’s gotten to the point where I’m starting to lose track of where my demo even sits anymore. Are there any ways to vet a production house or roster if someone is looking to add you to them?
I always look at the roster itself. I listen to the demos that are there. You can get a feel for it.
Sometimes, and it’s the same with agents, some production houses and agents will take everyone with a microphone and a pulse. They just want a big list. They’re playing the numbers game.
And that’s fine. That’s their business model, but you’ll get lots of auditions, but so they’re cattle calls. But no, you do your research as much as possible.
I’ve been approached by some smaller houses and you look at the work, you look at the roster, you go, meh, nah. And you look at the rates, you discuss rates. You say, no, I don’t get out of bed for that.
You know, seriously. I’m not cheap.
Which you can be.
Worth every penny, Bish. I said, worth every penny, but.
Oh, absolutely. But this cycles back to the, what do you do when you’re starting? You’ve got to take the lower paid jobs.
Yes, when I started, I was taking hundred dollar jobs and grateful for them and smiling sweetly. And then you realize, hang on, this isn’t where I want to be. This is not how I want to position myself in the market.
I am not a hundred dollar talent. Maybe that’s all I was worth back then. I don’t know.
Probably. But you slowly raise your game. I raised my minimum session fee this year.
Haven’t lost a single customer, which means I should have raised it last year.
Talking further about getting work, the last question really we want to talk about is, where do we see the future of the business going? Something that came to mind was the Google Duplex demonstration this week, which scared the bejesus out of me. If you’re not familiar with it and you’re listening, it’s an artificial intelligence that can actually naturally respond to questions.
So the demonstration they did at the Google AO Conference was to actually make an appointment for a hairdresser only using the artificial intelligence. Do we think that is coming faster than maybe we thought or hoped? Will our robot overlords take over anytime soon?
Well, obviously we’re all hoping not, but it’s certainly a possibility. You know, on the other side of it, I would say on the human side of it, I kind of, a couple of years ago, I think I did, I think I talked about this on the cafe. See, a couple of years ago, there seemed to be a bubble that started to burst.
I know that we still see a ton of people that are new to the business, but what’s happening in my experience is that there have been a lot of people because the industry has had so much publicity and glamorization in the last probably five or six years, there are a ton of people that have tried to get into the business, failed and quit. And so, but a lot of people now know what voice overs mean and what it is. I still run into somebody that I tell them what I do and they’re like, what is that?
But generally, to me, the business has gotten a ton of publicity and a lot more people know what it is and what it means in the last, like I said, five or six years. And to me, like two or three years ago, I started to really see people posting on Facebook chit chatting with various people. When I tell people what I do and somebody says to me, oh yeah, my sister tried that and found out it wasn’t really easy.
So she kind of quit and she’s working a regular nine to five now and she decided not to pursue it. So that’s happening. And so to me, it’s only gonna take a couple more years before people really start to realize that it’s not what it’s cracked up to be or what they think that it’s cracked up to be when they first get started.
And it’s just like free money for talking basically. And so that bubble has started to burst and word has started to spread about how difficult it is to make a living. So I’m hoping that that will continue.
I’m sorry, but you know…
There’s still time for us to get out, Sean.
Never. And people that have pursued it, that didn’t do it correctly to begin with, didn’t really do it… Like I said, they went out and bought the equipment right away and decided to cut a really crappy demo.
And then they found out it wasn’t that simple. So to me, it’s like that’s been a little bit of a relief for me, is like, okay, people are fine with it. The word is getting around that we’re not just…
The people that are successful in the business are not just lucky or… And we certainly don’t have lazy lives. So on the robotic side with the software that’s coming out, I really doubt that it’s going to get to the point where we’re completely replaced.
If that ever happens, it’s not gonna be anytime soon.
Yeah, a lot of what you say there makes total sense. Just to riff on one small thing there, I actually was asked a couple of years ago what I did for a living. I told them reluctantly and they rolled their eyes.
And I was like, no, no, really, I do. I pay my mortgage, put food on the table and everything. Because they come across a couple of people that were these, buy a mic and get a bad demo and call themselves a VO because it’s show business.
So I found I was defending myself. Okay, specific to this question, I’m going to be very self-serving here because I’m at least what? One or two years older than Trish?
It’s not going to affect me. And that’s a very selfish attitude. I don’t see it coming along before I decide to retire.
Yes, it’s going to work on IVR. It’s going to work on very basic instructional videos. I think, to be honest, it’s not going to take work because I think it creates its own market.
It’s the same with cheap VOs. To me, they come in the same bag as cheap VO. I don’t see cheap VOs threatening me because cheap VOs are being bought by people that wouldn’t buy me anyway.
Their choice is cheap VO or no VO.
Yeah, it’s the Walmart versus Tiffany.
Well, actually, what I’ve got is… I scribbled some notes earlier. Many people buy their cookies from the dollar store.
Their choice is the dollar store cookies or no cookies. I’m selling premium cookies. They were never going to be my customer.
So, yes, it’s there, and the demonstrations are impressive.
You still have to buy the software. So, you know, that’s the thing. And software isn’t cheap either at that level.
And maybe it eventually will be, but again, when it comes to all the nuances of the human voice, and, you know, I think that time-wise, it would actually, it’s going to be cheaper and faster for them to ultimately stay with real voices.
I want to listen to, let’s say, a good corporate narration or a piece of e-learning, and then someone tell me, well, that was all computer generated. Auto-response, something that’s a straightforward explainer video that’s been fine-tuned. I really, 10 years at least before it has any impact on the business, and even then, I’m not sure it will be the part of the business that most of us work in.
I have a feeling it will be price-driven. I think I said this on a different podcast episode that if it’s cheap, that’s one thing. People may say, you know, I’m going to pay for quality.
If it’s free and Google starts rolling it into the Android operating system, that scares me a bit.
Yeah, but I don’t know. I think people will become… It’s a novelty at the moment.
I still think there’s a bit of uncanny valley in there. It’s good, but it’s a little freaky because it’s not quite good enough, and people will become attuned to that. I mean, I know it when the phone rings.
I know when it’s a robot voice. Even one of these really good ones I’ve heard recently. And you can have fun with them.
I think people will get attuned to it, and it will actually end up being a bad reflection on the person that bought it. That’s…
I don’t know.
I haven’t thought that one through fully.
Yeah, it’s sort of like when you get a customer service rep that you know is outsourced, and they don’t have any idea what the product is, and they’re just reading from a script. You know that’s a cheaply done service enter.
Bang, can I end up speaking to someone in Mumbai because they’re cheap bastards and won’t keep a call center in where you are. And it’s like… And they say their name’s Roger.
Your name’s not Roger. Please just tell me your real name.
I understand you would like to know my real name. How can I help you today, Mr. Bishop?
But that cheapens the brand. And I think people do realize that there is a downside to cheapening your brand, which takes a hell of a recovery. It’s like having a demo out there.
You send a cheap, a bad demo out there to 20 production houses. Recalling it is difficult, I mean, to actually get that off the streets, because it’s out there in a digital media, and it’s there. So, calling it back is difficult, you know.
Well, I said I was going to end on this question, but I don’t want to end on such a downer, so let’s just go around the room and tell me something cool you’re working on this week.
Oh, Trish, you go. What have I been doing that’s cool?
I can start if you like.
Sure.
Alright, so yesterday I actually, well, took some of your advice, Trish, because I’ve heard you tell that story before. I was searching on Craigslist and found a job for my son. You probably, or maybe you guys haven’t heard, but our guests, I mean, sorry, our listeners have heard that I’ve been doing some work with my kids in VO and I found a documentary film for my six-year-old.
It’s about the, well, kind of depressing. I said I was going to be depressing, but it’s about the glaciers melting and how we just save them by stopping global warming. So that was pretty cool that he’s going to be doing a voice job right here in the studio next Tuesday with a live session.
That’ll be hilarious. He’s going to have the headphones on that I’m wearing. I’m going to be outside with the dual set of headphones on and listening to the director.
Fun. That’s cool. I don’t know how we stop global warming, to be honest, but that’s another discussion for another day.
Or perhaps not. I’m sorry, Sean.
Well, I was just saying, way to end on an up note there, Paul. My son has gotten a documentary before I have, but…
My dream, stolen by a 14-year-old.
Or an 11-year-old.
A six-year-old? Oh my God. Well, I mean, he’s going places, man.
I had the standard thing, because I took some extended time when I went to London for the One Voice Conference, which was great, by the way. So I was piled up right up until the day I left, and I got back on last Tuesday. And I haven’t stopped since.
But it’s all been business-to-business, corporates, nothing fancy. That last-minute piece I did on Wednesday was for a famous shoe brand. I actually did sign an NDA on that one.
And I’m going to be the internet voice of a famous chocolate bar.
Cool, cool.
So I do get those little ones like that. But most of it, it’s… I’ve forgotten the amount of times in the past three months I’ve used the word de-fenestration in a medical instructional video.
I mean, it’s glamorous, I know, but it has to be done.
Yeah, I mean, I hate to say it, but I’m kind of, you know, I’m the same way that Bish just said. Like, I do, I don’t know, probably five to eight projects a day, so I don’t really think about anything. Like, there’s nothing that really comes to mind from this past week that I really can…
that stands out. It’s like I do a lot of different things, but there’s not one in particular that was, like, particularly exciting. I guess a couple of weeks ago, I did a…
I’m in the Lego store in Rome, or is it Milan? It might be in Milan. The Lego store there, I’m on some of the announcements in the actual Lego store, like, you know, those…
the in-store kind of product advertisements and stuff.
In English or Italian?
In English.
I didn’t know.
No, nope, nope. Nope, in English.
Not everyone in New Jersey does. Just most of them.
Their names all end in a vowel, but they don’t necessarily speak the language. I got you.
The most exciting thing I’ve done this week, really, is send off a bunch of invoices, which is always exciting.
That’s very exciting.
Almost as exciting as getting the checks in the mail.
Mm-hmm.
Because it’s a business. Let’s not forget it’s a business. We’re not all unicorns and snowflakes.
It’s about paying the damn mortgage.
That’s true.
I mean, you get a lot of people who are like, come on, guys, why won’t you support me for this fan dub that I did? And it’s just like, well, what are your goals? Is this a hobby or are you trying to sustain a living from it?
So honestly, guys, I can’t thank you enough for joining us today because it’s just so beneficial for our audience to see these or to hear these living examples of people who are continuing to work day to day of voiceover. And it doesn’t take as much as some people think. I mean, you guys work hard, you research, you have common sense, and it has worked out for you.
And I just love that we come to this theme of just examining the resources that are available and deciding what’s best for you, like not taking everything as gospel and really carving your own path. So thank you guys so much for joining us today.
Thanks, Sean. I appreciate you guys having us on. It was a lot of fun.
Yeah, thanks. It was great. Sorry, I witter on a bit sometimes.
I did want to say, why don’t you tell us where people can hire you if they want to?
Oh, you can’t afford me.
Well, la-di-da.
La-di-da. peterbishopvo.com. All my contact details are there.
Yes, I mean, it’s all marketing. So if your client needs a Brit…
And if your client needs a snarky, smartass, or a party girl, as we found out earlier, I’m at voiceoversbytrish.com.
Do you want to plug the Cafe or not?
No, sure, we can. Yeah, I’m the co-host of the Voice Over Cafe. It’s voiceovercafe.org.
And we’re also on iTunes and pretty much… I think we’re on Stitcher and a bunch of other podcast apps. So if you just do a search for a Voice Over Cafe, you will find us.
And listed in the Necronomicon and the Book of the Dead. I will add one thing. Your introduction, Vice President of Wovo, everyone should join, it’s very cheap and good value.
I will be assuming the presidency after beginning of June.
Congratulations.
Corvo has done a wonderful job over the past few years. I’m stepping up to be president. And my aim is to put the world in World Voices.
So there’s going to be a lot of outreach to back to Europe, things like that. We’ve pushed out quite nicely down into the Spanish speaking community. And now we should really attack the proper English speaking community.
Very nice.
And for our listeners who aren’t familiar with WOVO, that’s the World Voices Organization. It’s a trade organization, not necessarily a union, but just a group of professional voice actors who are working together to ensure and maintain the integrity of the voice over business internationally. So I think it’s an amazing organization.
I’m a member. And if you’re looking for… They actually have a mentorship program.
So if you’re looking for feedback on studios, demos, or people to ask questions to, it’s a wonderful resource for that.
Yeah. My favorite mentoring thing is the sanity check. So you just need to talk to someone because you’re going crazy.
That’s there as well. So yeah, worldvoices.org. Check it out.
So thanks again to Trish and Bish. That was so much fun. I didn’t really want it to be a huge roast of Terry.
All right, I kind of did. And I’m glad it went that way. But it was just so fun to have those two on.
They’re just a hoot every time I talk to them, both on…
That guy needs to be knocked down a peg.
But every time I talk to them, both online or in person.
Absolutely. They’ve been incredible mentors, both, like you said, live and in person. And they’ve both been extremely helpful to our own careers, helping, like, steering us away from some of our questionable gear purchases, if you can believe it or not, and really helping us have just a more realistic and professional mindset when it comes to pursuing this, and kind of helping us avoid some of the pitfalls that we try and help you guys avoid.
So that pretty much wraps up this episode of The VO Meter. A couple of things we have coming up pretty exciting. We are going to have the host and creator of the Mid-Atlantic Voice Over Conference, Val Kelly.
She’s coming up in our July episode.
Ms. Squacky Voices herself.
Yes, exactly. And then we will be presenting live from Otacon 2018. It’s the Japanese Anime Convention at the Washington Convention Center in Washington, DC.
That’s August 10th through the 12th. And then we’re also going to be at the Mid-Atlantic Voice Conference itself, broadcasting live from there.
So I sadly will not be at either of those events this year, but I believe, will Chris Datoli be joining you again for Otacon?
Yep, Chris Datoli for Otacon. And Ken Foster will be filling in for Sean at Mabo.
Excellent, excellent. He did a fantastic VO Meter shtick for us several episodes ago. Should definitely go check it out.
The purple-haired man with the purple heart, I guess. So thank you guys so much for listening to this episode. We hope you enjoy it and catch us next time on the VO Meter.
Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
Goodbye, everybody. Thanks for listening to the VO Meter, Measuring Your Voice Over Progress. To follow along, please visit www.vometer.com.