The VO Meter… Measuring Your Voice Over Progress. The VO Meter is brought to you by voiceactorwebsites.com, VocalBoot2Go, podcastdemos.com, Global Voice Acting Academy, and IPDTL.
And now, your hosts, Paul Stefano and Sean Daeley.
Hello, everybody. Welcome to Episode 36 of The VO Meter.
Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
We have a really exciting episode. We’re going to have, as a guest, branding expert, Celia Siegel, and she has some great tips for how to brand yourself properly for your voiceover career.
So we’re really excited to have Celia on. We’ll get to her in a few minutes after our current events and questionable gear purchases, but before that, a word from voiceactorwebsites.com.
As a voice talent, you have to have a website. But what a hassle getting someone to do it for you. And when they finally do, they break or don’t look right on mobile devices.
They’re not built for marketing and SEO. They’re expensive. You have limited or no control.
And it takes forever to get one built and go live. So what’s the best way to get you online in no time? Go to voiceactorwebsites.com.
Like our name implies, voiceactorwebsites.com just does websites for voice actors. We believe in creating fast, mobile-friendly, responsive, highly functional designs that are easy to read and easy to use. You have full control.
No need to hire someone every time you want to make a change. And our upfront pricing means you know exactly what your costs are ahead of time. You can get your voice over website going for as little as $700.
So if you want your voice actor website without the hassle of complexity and dealing with too many options, go to voiceactorwebsites.com where your VO website shouldn’t be a pain in the you-know-what.
Once again, thanks to Joe and Karen and all the team there at voiceactorwebsites.com. We love you so much.
Absolutely. I need to talk to them about updating my website. It’s a little old.
So we’re going to have Celia Siegel coming up in just a few moments. But first, current events. Sean, anything cool going on in your VO world?
No new exciting projects recently, but I did get some cool auditions that I’m really like… This is how you know that you’re meant to be a voice actor when you get excited about an audition that you think you’d be a good fit for. It’s actually for a sort of an audio tour for a zoo.
And I’m like, oh my God, I love zoos and animals. And I would, yeah, just be kind of like being a little audio zookeeper talking about big cats or something like that.
I remember one of those as a kid when I used to go to the Philadelphia Zoo. They had, I guess one of the first times I was exposed to a voiceover like that was this old tape recorder that you would put a key into. This is back in 1981, 1982.
You put this little key that was shaped like an elephant into the little recorder at each animal display or enclosure, and it would play a little audio tour by a voiceover person, I guess. I have no idea who it was. I’d love to find out who that was back in 1980.
If you’re listening and you were the voice of the Philadelphia Zoo in the 80s, please let me know.
Might have just been one of the staff, who knows? I remember my first experience with those kind of museum tours was back when they gave you… You had to wear it across…
You wore it like a shoulder strap, and they had that one kind of recording device almost like from Home Alone that he used to play with. It was this big old thing. But luckily, the technology has gotten much more portable than that.
But I’ve done audio tours like this in the past. I had a wonderful German client a few years ago where I got to do a whole audio tour about this really innovative, eco-conscious community. So I love doing work like that, and I’m really hoping for this.
I actually joined one of our workouts through GVAA so I could get some feedback on it and get a read that I was really confident in. So never be too proud to get that additional help and training on those important auditions. So that’s pretty much all the things I’ve got going on right now.
What about you, Paul? Actually, no, I do have one more thing. So on top of that, I’m trying to just kind of reinvigorate myself and kind of refresh some things about my VO business.
I’m scheduling a new commercial demo within the next month or two as well as… Yeah.
Who’s that with?
Our good friend Terry Daniel, actually. I bought this credit from him years ago. Never.
Barry Spaniel. Who the heck’s that?
He was actually one of my first voiceover coaches. He did all of my original demos, and so before I left Japan, I just got another credit from him, and then we both got so busy that two years later, and they still haven’t redeemed it. So we’re both in agreement that this is a long time coming.
And so on top of that, I’m also updating or bouncing off some audio to our good friend George Widom so he can do his magic and make it sound as good as possible. So I’m excited about that. I’m happy that I’m taking more active changes to improve my business again, because sometimes it’s easy to get so caught up in the routine that you forget to maintain and improve your business, you know?
Well, it’s funny you mention that. That’s the whole theme of the Voice Over Atlanta Conference this year, Refresh.
Refresh.
You already have a head start on that. Good job.
Indeed. I’m actually debating doing an X session with another of our good friends, Paul Strickferda, which is all about six steps to turning your VO business around. I’m fairly happy with where I’m at right now, but it could definitely get like…
I certainly wouldn’t mind having more clients and more income, so I definitely want to improve it in any way I can. And Paul has been such a mentor and a friend for the last couple of years. It would be really nice to do something for him by attending his workshop.
Very cool.
So that’s pretty much all I’ve got going on for current events. What about you, Paul?
Yeah, I have a couple of cool things going on. In the last episode, we talked about my son having a directed session coming up. So we did that on Friday, and it was pretty interesting.
It was an hour and fifteen minutes. And I got to say, he was pretty strung out at the end. I totally understand child labor laws, because an hour and fifteen minutes was way too much for a seven-year-old.
But we did get it done. Oh my goodness, yeah. Yeah, I mean, he was a trooper, and he’s terrible about drinking water, just in general.
You know, he’s a typical toddler. He only wants to drink juice, or Capri Suns, or soda, yeah. So I had the water, and he didn’t want to touch it for the first hour.
And then finally, I got him to drink some of it, and then he was okay. But after the hour and fifteen minutes, he was definitely done. But it went great.
The best part was we didn’t have to edit it. We sent it off to the client, and they said they liked it a lot, and they’re going to be using it soon. So I’m excited about that.
And then I am working on my first book for Punch Audio, which is pretty cool. I’ve wanted to work with them for a while, had submitted, and had not heard back, but now they gave me a title to work on. Go figure, it’s a tourist book about Philadelphia.
I figured I could nail that one, being a native to the city. And my sales pitch worked, so I’m working on that, and it should be out pretty soon.
Nice.
And then finally, something we both did, actually, we were accepted to voiceovers.com with our guest from the previous episode, Matt Dubois. He runs that company, the new pay-to-play site you might have heard of. They haven’t launched quite yet.
He’s sort of waiting for Vio Atlanta to wrap up and make a big announcement there. But I was accepted, and I’m pretty excited for things to come with them.
Well, yeah, after talking with Matt, he definitely endeared himself on me, and I thought he had a really clear plan of where he wants this site to go and what niche he wants it to fill. And as you said, he’s doing… He’s actually sent out numerous emails preparing people for the launch, letting people know when they can log in to their new site and when they can put their demos up.
And he’s really taking his time, because I know some other sites kind of struggled with their relaunch. To say the least. Yeah, to say the least.
And so I feel like he’s really trying… He’s put a lot of thought and money and time into this, and he’s just trying to do it in the best way possible. And I took it as a personal challenge, because he vets all the talent that’s on the site.
So I was like, hmm, if I don’t get accepted to this site, maybe I should look into another career.
Yeah, I thought of that, too. He mentioned that on our show, that he had already turned away a number of people. So I was kind of curious myself.
Luckily, I didn’t get the boot.
Well, it’s not always about talent, too. Sometimes they just have too many of that particular voice. It could be for an arbitrary reason.
But yeah, so I was very happy that we both got accepted, and I’m looking forward to working with them.
So one other thing I want to talk about, not necessarily work-related, but certainly VO-related, is vocal health. Because in between this and the last episode, I visited a new otolaryngologist, which is the person who studies the ear, nose, and throat. They’re also called ear, nose, and throat doctors, or ENTs.
And I had been seeing somebody for years, but they are in the process of retiring, because it’s an older gentleman who was my physician, so I had to find a new doctor. So I made a point of finding someone who actually knew about vocal performance, and I was lucky to end up at the Milton J. Dance Voice Center, or sorry, Milton J.
Dance Head and Neck Center of Johns Hopkins University. So being based in Baltimore, we have access to the Johns Hopkins Health System, almost always rated in the top five and usually top one hospital systems in the US, so going there made a lot of sense, and I found some really cool speech pathologists there to help me look at my voice. I’ve been having some trouble with stamina, at least I think I have, over the last couple of months, where I don’t feel like I can talk as much as I used to, especially when doing audiobooks, so something I want to get checked out.
So I had my first laryngeal stroboscopy, if anyone knows what that test is, and so they take the lighted camera, stick it right in the back of your throat and point it down as your vocal folds, and you can watch it live as it’s happening, so they only give you a local anesthetic and some lidocaine to spray your throat, so you can essentially swallow this giant lighted tube, and you make noises and sounds so the doctor can see your vocal folds, and the monitor is right next to you as it’s happening, so it’s really kind of wild to see that happen. I had never seen my vocal cords or vocal folds live before. I’m sure a lot of people haven’t.
That’s been an interesting conversation.
We actually watched the video back today because I had a therapy session, so moving along the story, what happened was they found that I’m having some… They call it parisus of the vocal cords, so they’re closing OK for the most part, but not as well as they could if things were in an optimal 100% level. So there’s some therapy they recommended doing, and I’m going to a couple of sessions where we’re talking about ways to better use the vocal cords.
And the best part is since I went to a specialist who works with voice performers, they actually do this all the time. So I was in a room today surrounded by instruments and microphones because in the hospital, they have this set up where they work with performers. Singers, they mention working with newscasters and voice artists as well.
So really well equipped to work with people that do what we do. And we’re going to work through some things that help me with my breath control, which I think is contributing to this issue, and better use of warming up, which I almost never do. So they’re giving me some exercises to work on that.
And all in all, really great to see somebody who specializes in the health of voice performers. I think it’ll help me in the long run.
It’s interesting that you had that experience, because if you remember in December, I was just… I don’t know what it was. If I had like five colds, or just one super cold, that lasted for about five weeks, it was just really…
like, it was depressing, because you feel like crap, and you can’t do your job, and it was not good. So after that, I’ve been trying to be more conscious. I’m a big fan of self-care on a good day.
But this has kind of got me to look at my health, look at my fitness, and try and evaluate how I can improve that as well. But one thing that you guys might not know about me is that I have a pretty chronic back injury from a few years ago. Unfortunately, we don’t know the exact reason why it happened, but I literally stepped off a train, and then I heard a…
and then I was never the same. Yeah, so I don’t know. It’s usually when that happens, it’s just accumulation of bad posture, not stretching, all that stuff, and then finally something just getting pulled out of place.
But so I got this one device called a plexus wheel. It’s essentially a foam roller for your back that it’s got like a little channel that your spine can fit through because that’s the problem with a lot of foam rollers if you’ve ever used a traditional one is you can’t really get them over your… I mean, you obviously can’t roll your spine and you can’t do your shoulder blades or anything like that, but this is just a wheel with that little channel in the middle.
Fits right between the shoulder blades, goes all the way down your back, and I had no idea. Everywhere was tense. My neck, the back of my head, my abs, my hips, my feet.
I was like, oh my God, how have I been functioning? And so, since we do spend so much time either standing and performing or sitting and editing or writing emails and reaching out to clients, we really have to take that time to get up, stretch, go to the gym, do some yoga, whatever you enjoy to keep your health up. And like you said, you need that stamina.
VO, in especially long form narration, is a marathon. It does take a lot out of you. So if you don’t have a healthy foundation, you’re basically limiting the potential work you can do and how well you can do it.
So definitely try and at least whatever it is. Maybe go for a walk with your spouse or girlfriend or whatever, or just go to the gym. Whatever you like to do that helps you feel good and healthy, do it.
So that pretty much wraps up current events. Take care of yourselves, guys. Take care of your instrument.
And we’re about to get into our interview with Celia Siegel after our questionable gear purchases. But before that, a word from Tim Page and Podcast Demos. So let me tell you about Tim Page and his team.
They’ve produced over 1,000 podcast intros for some of the biggest podcasts on the planet. Each demo includes custom-written scripts and hand-selected music, and is guaranteed to showcase your voice and talent in the best light possible. With a finger on the pulse of what podcast producers want, you can be sure your podcast demo will sound professional, current, and competitive.
So you probably know this, but Tim actually produced Paul’s and my podcast demos, and all I can say is that he and his team are absolutely amazing. His script writer created original scripts perfect for my voice and personality, and they were totally reflective of current popular podcast genres. I recorded in the comfort of my own home studio, and Tim worked his mastering magic.
The whole process only took a couple of days, and I couldn’t be more pleased. Tim is a consummate pro, and it’s so easy to work with. So thank you so much, Tim, in podcast demos.
All right. We have a treat for you coming up. In lieu of a questionable gear purchase, Sean and I actually did a mic shootout of the mics we had laying around the house, which will sound ridiculous after you hear how many there were.
But we really did just have these mics in a locker, so to speak, or in a shelving unit, or sitting next to the interface. So we’re going to go through a couple of different mics. We’re actually going to play it now and refresh our memories and listen back.
We’d like to get your comments either on our Facebook page or to our Twitter account, so you can tell us which one you think is the best, and maybe you can guess which ones they are. So first, in no particular order, my mics were a Blue Raspberry, a Sennheiser MKH416, a SM58 by Shure, a Blue Yeti Nano, it’s actually my son’s, but he let me use it, an Audio Technica 4073A, and a Shure SM7B. And Sean, what were yours?
So before I do that, I actually wanted to thank two people. First off, Jim Edgar for making this a true blind shootout. When I posted these to Facebook and YouTube, I provided…
I labeled the files, so basically people were like, oh, this is this mic and that, and then without asking for me, Jim’s like, here, I mixed them up for you, and then made a blind track. So it’s a true shootout for you and us. So thank you, Jim, for that.
And then lastly, I wanted to thank my uncle Frank, who actually supplied two of the mics in this shootout. So the first one was the MXL 990. It’s probably the most affordable microphone on this list.
It’s only about $100. Then you have the AT4047, or the Audio Technica 4047. It retails new for about $700, but you can usually find it used for anywhere from $300 to $400.
So it’s definitely a good one to look for, to look for a good deal on. So those were the ones that my uncle gave me, and I was so happy to finally try those mics out, because back in my old gear-lusty days, they were definitely ones I was looking at. Other than that, we have an interesting kind of a dark horse in the shootout, the Rode Reporter mic.
So this is actually just a… Like, this is a handheld, omni-directional mic, and it’s meant to be used for interviews and field recording. So my whole plan was to use it at conventions like Emerald City or at VO Atlanta and help me with the podcast and my videography stuff.
And I was like, sounds good, why not try it for VO? And then of course, there’s the Sennheiser Fork 16, much like Paul’s, so you at least get to see how that sounds on two very different male voices. And last but not least is my baby, the Gefehl M930, which is a mic I’ve wanted for a very long time.
It was made by Gefehl, which is a German company. They’re actually part of Neumann, but they were separated during the time of the Berlin Wall, and then they kind of created their own microphones from there. So there is some similarities in like the shape and the form factor, but they do have their own unique sound, and some people actually prefer it to some of the Neumann mics, especially the TLM 103.
Cool. So yeah, those are the contenders. We’re going to play them now with the copy Sean and I read from our sponsor, the Global Voice Acting Academy, which you might recognize, and then we’ll come back and talk about which ones we like best.
So without further ado, here’s the mic shootout.
Questionable gear purchase.
Global Voice Acting Academy, or GVAA, provides professional online voiceover education through classes, workshops, webinars, private coaching, demo production, and VO membership programs. Whether you’re just beginning your VO journey or an experienced veteran, GVAA offers professional training, career resources, rate guide services, and a supportive, caring community. Global Voice Acting Academy, or GVAA, provides professional online voiceover education through classes, workshops, webinars, private coaching, demo production, and VO membership programs.
Whether you’re just beginning your VO journey or an experienced veteran, GVAA offers professional training, career resources, rate guide services, and a supportive, caring community. Global Voice Acting Academy, or GVAA, provides professional online voiceover education through classes, workshops, webinars, private coaching, demo production, and VO membership programs. Whether you’re just beginning your VO journey or an experienced veteran, GVAA offers professional training, career resources, rate guide services, and a supportive, caring community.
Global Voice Acting Academy, or GVAA, provides professional online voiceover education through classes, workshops, webinars, private coaching, demo production, and VO membership programs. Whether you’re just beginning your VO journey or an experienced veteran, GVAA offers professional training, career resources, rate guide services, and a supportive, caring community. Global Voice Acting Academy, or GVAA, provides professional online voiceover education through classes, workshops, webinars, private coaching, demo production, and VO membership programs.
Whether you’re just beginning your VO journey or an experienced veteran, GVAA offers professional training, career resources, rate guide services, and a supportive, caring community.
Global Voice Acting Academy, or GVAA, provides professional online voiceover education through classes, workshops, webinars, private coaching, demo production, and VO membership programs. Whether you’re just beginning your VO journey or an experienced veteran, GVAA offers professional training, career resources, rate guide services, and a supportive, caring community. Global Voice Acting Academy, or GVAA, provides professional online voiceover education through classes, workshops, webinars, private coaching, production, and VO membership programs.
Whether you’re just beginning your VO journey or an experienced veteran, GVAA offers professional training, career resources, rate guide services, and a supportive, caring community. Global Voice Acting Academy, or GVAA, provides professional online voiceover education through classes, workshops, webinars, private coaching, demo production, and VO membership programs. Whether you’re just beginning your VO journey or an experienced veteran, GVAA offers professional training, career resources, rate guide services, and a supportive, caring community.
Global Voice Acting Academy, or GVAA, provides professional online voiceover education through classes, workshops, webinars, private coaching, demo production, and VO membership programs. Whether you’re just beginning your VO journey or an experienced veteran, GVAA offers professional training, career resources, rate guide services, and a supportive, caring community. Global Voice Acting Academy, or GVAA, provides professional online voiceover education through classes, workshops, webinars, private coaching, demo production, and VO membership programs.
Whether you’re just beginning your VO journey or an experienced veteran, GVAA offers professional training, career resources, rate guide services, and a supportive, caring community. Global Voice Acting Academy, or GVAA, provides professional online voiceover education through classes, workshops, webinars, private coaching, demo production, and VO membership programs. Whether you are just beginning your VO journey or an experienced veteran, GVAA offers professional training, career resources, rate guide services, and a supportive, caring community.
Holy cow, will that guy ever shut up?
We had a true baker’s dozen.
Oh, that was awesome. All right, so, for my money, the best that I heard from you were the first and the second to last. So that’s one in five, right?
Mm-hmm. So, yeah, one in five, I think, were the best, at least from my mind. They sounded the most present and the least poppy.
Interesting. And that was probably just poor technique on my end. But would you like to know the results?
Well, first, what did you think about the ones from My Voice since I was critiquing yours?
So, the first one, let me just go over it. So, number one, not bad, sounds like Paul. Second one, forward, too much signal, like it was a little harsh.
Let’s see, third one, I think it was just kind of like… It was like, oh, usable. Nothing…
it was clear and accurate, but it didn’t have anything exciting about it, which is fine, which is actually really good for a VO mic. Number four was my least favorite. Or number five was actually my favorite in that one.
Number six, I thought was like, it really emphasized the low mids in your voice, so it felt a little unbalanced. Yeah, so it’s like all body, no head kind of thing.
All right, cool. You think we should spill the beans? What do you think?
Yeah, definitely. Why not? Why not?
Okay, so you said that your two favorites were number one and five in mine, and that was the AT4047 from Audio Technica. My own notes, I thought that was clear and smooth, a little mid-range-y, but not unpleasant. I actually preferred that to the 416, which was number four, which I thought was a little strident, and as you heard, it was really poppy.
It was really receptive to plosives. Number five, I was surprised, because that was actually the road reporter mic. Really?
I think my math might have been off, too. How many did you have?
I had five. Oh, so you chose the 416, didn’t you?
So then five would be the worst, and four would be my favorite.
Okay, so you liked the 416. My favorite was actually the Caffele, and I hope it’s not just because it was the most expensive. Because it had the clarity and the smoothness of the AT-47 and the clarity of the 416, but for lack of a better word, it’s almost like it just enhances my voice.
It just sounds a little bit smoother. Not artificial, but it just sounds really pleasant to me, so I’m really happy that I have it.
Awesome. So let me go over mine. The ones you picked, at least based on what I think you picked, with the numbers, the first one was the Blue Raspberry, which I agree, sounds really good.
I’ve always said it sounds great, especially for a USB mic. If you’re not familiar, it’s a little tiny, about the size of a deck of cards, but thinner, USB mic. And it really sounds good.
A lot of people use it on the road, and I’ll probably bring it to VO Atlanta as well.
Yeah, isn’t it? It works with iPhone and Android?
In the box, it comes with a lightning cable, and a micro USB cable. So it can work with either Android or Apple, or even plug it into your computer, obviously, with the USB.
Very cool. So remember, if you’re using an Android device, you might have to use… Because you know Apple has their camera connection kit adapter, that lets you use audio devices with them.
The version for Android is called an On-the-Go or an OTG cable. So make sure if you have an Android and you’re trying to hook up audio equipment to it, whether it be a USB mic or an audio interface, that you have that OTG cable.
Yeah, I found that the Raspberry is hit or miss. I tend to buy a lot of phones, kind of like microphones. It works native with some, so if your phone has a micro USB charger, it does work with some.
But I think that might be the issue with Android, is that there’s so many different companies who produce Android phones that it’s impossible to have that blanket compatibility, right?
Yeah, exactly. So moving along in the mic shootout, the one you didn’t like, number two, was the 416. And it’s not uncommon, because we’ve had this discussion before where you and I have done personal tests.
The one you liked the best was the Audio-Technica 4073A. That was number five.
Nice, I’ve always said that sounded great.
Yeah, when I did my direct shootout with the 416 and that mic, you said you liked the Audio-Technica one better, so that’s not surprising. The super muddy one, the last one, is the Shure SM7B. And people give that complaint to that mic a lot, that it just doesn’t have any high-end, it’s all mud.
And the one you said was usable, but nothing special, was an SM58. And that’s the experience I’ve had, too. It’s a dynamic mic generally used for singing, for live performances, but I’ve had it in here for years.
If you saw my appearance, or Sean and my appearance, on VOBS a couple of years ago, it was sitting in the background. I was worried they were going to give me heck for having a dynamic stage mic as an audio mic, but it works well. And you know what?
The one I use for my son is this mic, too. It works great on little kid voices.
I remember when I was looking for… This was years ago, before I really even had my own studio set up, but I was looking for a portable or a travel mic. This engineer actually recommended the 58, so I was like, really?
Yeah, you never know.
And it’s also, like people say, it is sturdy. It is really sturdy. I dropped it last week at a Cub Scout Pinewood Derby.
I was emceeing, and it bounced right back, and we used it for my son’s session on Friday.
Well, that just goes to show… A lot of people… I mean, the whole dynamic versus condenser thing, it’s like dynamic microphones aren’t bad microphones.
They’re just not good for voiceover, because comparatively, condensers just get… They’re so much more sensitive, because they get that extra power from the phantom power, and they can really capture the full spectrum of the voice and nuance of your performance. So it’s not that these are bad microphones or bad tools, it’s just pairing the right tool for the job.
Yeah, if you have a great space like I do and a nice interface, serviceable interface that can power it enough, it’ll sound really good.
Almost anything will sound good.
True. One thing that’s…
Well, I did want to talk about that one, like the MX-L990, because this thing, this mic’s only like $100 new, but you could probably get it second hand for as little as $20. And it sounds really nice. Like, I was just…
Yeah, I bought several, actually. And I think the last one I paid $45 for, so yeah.
That’s awesome. Did you get the flag-shaped one, the one that looks like the US flag?
Actually, I was looking for one. I thought that was going to be my mic. When Michael Jolly was still in business, the mic monitor, my plan was to buy the American flag one and ship it to him.
It’s called the Patriot, and make that my dream capsule mic. But then I got lazy, and then he retired, so it didn’t happen. I bought a regular gray one.
Oh, sad day. Well, you can paint it yourself. Truly make it your own mic.
But yeah, I was pleasantly surprised. So thanks again to Jim and Uncle Frank for supplying me with those mics, and thanks Paul for playing along and supplying plenty of your own.
My pleasure. So we’ll get to our talk with Celia Siegel in just a moment, right after a word from our sponsor, IPDTL. Now, if you don’t know, IPDTL is the Cost Effective ISDN Replacement.
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Welcome back to The VO Meter. Our guest today is Celia Siegel. Now, Celia is a branding, marketing, and management expert specializing in voiceover.
She’s known for creating strong personal brands for voice talent and marketing those brands to the max in a way that’s authentic to each voice actor. No matter where you are in your voiceover career, Celia can help you make sound business choices and strategize for success. Before founding and building CSM, or Celia Siegel Management, Celia was a top West Coast talent agent at CSD.
Celia can help talent identify when taking classes and auditioning has become a full-time job, instead of the actual paying work, and how they can fix that by turning activity into a powerful career. Her multi-leveled expertise and extensive knowledge of the ever-changing voiceover industry helps voice actors across the globe grow their VO business and take their careers to the next level. Please join me in welcoming Celia Siegel.
Hello Celia.
Well, hello. How are you guys?
We are better now. So happy to have you here.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Oh, it’s…
Yeah, we’ve been talking about this for a while, and I’m super psyched to be on your show.
Yeah, we’re super psyched to have you. So Celia, please tell us a little bit more about what you do and how did you become the VO manager and branding specialist that you are today?
Well, gosh, that’s been a long journey. You know, I started out in agenting, so I was an agent for a long time, and for some reason, I just always loved the VO piece of it. Yeah, I did that for like 14 years at three different talent agencies, Wayman, CESD, and JE in San Francisco.
And the whole time, I was always begging my bosses for like money to do branding and marketing, and I would always brand each of my clients as a way to make them more money. So it’s just been an inherent thing that just sort of organically happened. And then I had some babies, and I thought I would take a little break, and my clients just kept calling me and asking me for help with their branding and marketing, and that’s when I opened up my management company specializing in branding, in a nutshell.
And you’re not working in California any longer, correct? What do you work out of now?
You know, I work out of all over. You know, we’re all so lucky. I was just talking to a client earlier today who’s going to Australia with her rig, and I’m like, it is a crazy time.
I snuck away to Minneapolis, and I’ve been working from my office here whilst raising my kids. But I still kind of consider myself a California West Coast business. I spend a lot of time there, and I will be heading back right from the graduation stage as soon as my youngest gets out of high school.
So yep, I’m currently in Minnesota.
OK, awesome. So I noticed you have an entire team at your disposal at Wood CSM. Tell us about your team members and what unique services you feel your team brings to the table.
You know, just as we’ve grown, it used to just be my writer, Marnie Lee and I doing the brands and helping people with their careers. But now we have a marketing team who does digital marketing. I have somebody who does actual cold calls for our clients.
So we have a whole system. So we start with doing your brand and working together to figure out exactly what that is. So that’s a whole process.
And then we couple that with your business plan, and we try to get everything done that you want to have done. So that requires a lot of help. So we’re your whole sort of voice over insider team.
So we do the branding, the business planning, and then we execute sort of your goals on the business plan through marketing and getting you agents and, you know, whatever is on your list of things to go to the next level.
Very cool. So let’s talk a little bit more about branding, because a lot of talent might not understand why it’s so important. So can you tell us a little bit more about that, like figuring out the branding process for talent without revealing too many of your trade secrets, of course?
Sure. No, no, not at all. I mean, I like to tell people not to overthink it.
I mean, really, your brand is just, you know, your way of saying, you know, why Sean Daeley should get this job. You know, it’s how to quickly and at a glance start a relationship with the buyer at our community. So it’s basically the story of why you.
And really, it’s a pretty fun process. Once you dig down in there, it just gives you this really powerful cornerstone to connect with people. So your brand is just, you know, tell me a little bit about you in a fun, engaging, smart way.
Very cool.
Have you had somebody resist after you’ve worked with them for a while where you said, listen, I think this is where your brand should be heading, and they say, oh, no, no, no, that’s not me at all. You’ve got me all wrong.
You know, usually the way that we work is I have a document we call the brand finder, and you can find that in my book, Voice Over Achiever. I really tried to share this information so that people could, because I believe everybody should do this. You know, so there’s some great exercises in there.
And people don’t really resist because it’s all about you. So I never brand anybody, you know, like, oh, hey, Paul, I think you should be, you know, a real jovial, you know, whatever, like picking something that you’re not. It’s all about finding what you are and then packaging it in a way that really works for you.
So it’s much more of a collaborative process. You’re not necessarily like, this is what I think you are, Sean. This is like, you tell me, and we can work on how to package that together.
Yeah, I mean, that’s my biggest desire when I work with people is, you know, I always say when you hit it right, you feel like jumping up and down. It really is this feeling of being seen, and that’s when we know we’ve gotten there. And we never stop until we get that feeling of, yes, that’s me, I’m proud of that.
I want to go communicate that with people. Go to my website or ever look at any of the brands that we’ve done. If you know any of those talent, the goal is like, oh, that’s so her.
Or like, oh, that’s spot on. You know, we’re always going for that feeling of, that is so you. Typically, people don’t resist.
Now, based on the process as you just outlined it, I think I can guess the answer, but I’m curious, has there ever been a case where you worked with somebody and say five or maybe even eight to ten years down the line, they say, you know what, I think my personality has shifted or when we worked together, I was raising three kids, for instance, and now they’re all in college and my whole philosophy on life has changed. Now we need to work together again. Has that ever happened?
Oh yeah, all the time. But it’s not, let’s throw the baby out with the bath water. I need something completely new.
You know, when you look at national brands and you really watch, you know, you’ve seen those studies on the Coca-Cola logo or the Pepsi messaging or Morton Salt. You know, every few years, they morph, you know, so your brand needs to change with the trends. It needs to change to reflect, you know, it’s connecting with your ideal buyer.
So if you used to be a comedic commercial guy, and then all of a sudden, you can’t voice your medical narration fast enough, you know, your brand might morph a little bit, but it’s still gonna be with that umbrella, like the kernel of who you are. So I’ve been doing this long enough. I’ve had my management branding company for 16 years, I think.
So in that time, I have clients who’ve been with me the whole time as their manager, and I might be on my third brand with in 16 years. So yes, your brand does need to grow and change, but if you do it right the first time, it’s going to be a shift, because you don’t want to ruin all that brand equity by just showing up with something completely different. You want to keep that brand recognition.
So if they do it right with you, then that won’t happen. You’ll be able to grow as opposed to completely 180-degree your brand.
Yeah, I mean, a lot of people… I do a free 15-minute brand consultation, so if anybody wants to get in touch with me, I will look at and sift through what you’re working with now. And some people…
It’s like so many things in any business. You want to get on the right track as soon as possible and really figure out if you’re sending something out that doesn’t look like you sound, you got to remedy that as soon as possible. And it doesn’t need to be some complex, super expensive website.
But back to what I said at the beginning, it’s a simple thing. Just make sure what you’re putting out there to meet people matches who you are and what you’re doing and who you want to talk to.
So before we get off this topic of multiple brands, I’m curious, do clients come to you? Because like you were mentioning, as voice actors, we tend to work in multiple genres. Do they come to you to say, like, hey, I’ve got this sort of audio book brand and this also, like you said, this comedic commercial brand?
Does that happen often or at all?
Yep, it happens all the time because you guys are really so good at so many things. I always start with the business plan. So first we do the brand finder and get working on that magic.
And then while we’re cooking that up, I have my clients work on a business plan. And if you’ve never done a business plan, it’s such a great focusing tool to really lay it all out there. And I have had many clients who have been like, oh my gosh, I’m doing five full-time things.
And we need to strategize and brand in a way that we’re speaking to all of their separate genres. I have many people who are like, I’m doing five things, but I really only want to be an audio book narrator. And I want to be the best, and I want to brand that way.
And it’s been really powerful to just claim your path. So yes, frequently there are many, many hats in one brand.
That’s awesome. I have one more question because a lot of our audience is newbies, quote unquote, people that are just starting out in the business. Do you ever tell anybody they’re not ready to work with you?
Being an agent in your past, you know talent. Have you ever said to somebody, you know, your recordings sound like you’re talking with your head in the toilet, or you need some coaching, or you need some dialect coaching before we work together. Has that ever happened?
Oh yeah, all the time. I think that the good way to think about branding is, I believe it should happen sooner rather than later, but it kind of comes… If you’re not ready to do your demo, you know, and it’s very important to wait until you’ve got all the training that you need to put your best foot forward, you’re not ready to do a brand.
You know, so getting that coaching, training, knowing you’re marketable, knowing where you’re going, who your ideal customer is, all of that needs to be put together before you throw out your brand.
Absolutely. I mean, your demo is almost like your audio brand. And if you haven’t gotten that figured out, then you’re really just shooting in the dark.
Exactly. And your demo is your audio brand, you know, so kind of when you figure out what your brand is and jump up and down and, aha, I feel seen, you know, it’s your prism for looking at everything. You know, how do I slate?
What do I read? What do my demos sound like? Does it reflect this essence?
You know, so it becomes this really great, powerful tool to just, you know, get in alignment with everything. So, yes, definitely demos are your audio brand, for sure.
Very cool. So we’ve talked about it a little bit throughout this interview some of the benefits of having a manager, that direction, that branding feedback, that organizational aspect to it. What do you feel are some other benefits of having a manager?
And how does that compare to, like you said, you have a lot of agency experience, how does a manager compare to being an agent or some other kind of VO staff?
You know, your manager is really your closest, confident business guide. They’re there for you in ways that… Your agent is always going to be an important relationship, should you choose to design your career that way.
And they’re going to be booking, negotiating, giving you some guidance. But a manager, traditionally, is somebody there to guide all aspects of your career. I spend a lot of time keeping my clients in the zone, delegating the things that aren’t in their zone of genius so they can just audition, do their personal marketing stuff where they’re connecting with people, but where my team is really handling all of their sales and PR, guiding them when their demos are rusty, how to freshen them up, when is a good time, who to study with, who’s on your agent team, what rosters are you on, the big picture, we’re always looking at that, and the money, are you hitting your goals.
So it’s more micro, I would say, where your agent relationship is more your macro career.
So you talked about the book briefly, but tell us a little bit more about Voice Over Achiever. How did that come about and how people responded to the book?
You know, I have been meaning to write a book for like, you know, 10 years like everybody else. And I finally was just like, as I, you know, started working with more of the community and meeting more of you guys at conferences, and I really want everybody to have a brand. Like, I’m just geeky enough about it, you know, because it elevates our industry.
And I love it when you guys are successful. I really, truly do find it exciting. So I just wanted to put down our thing that we do with our clients one-on-one in a way that was accessible to everybody.
So we really spent a lot of time, my team and I, like, no, no, that’s not how we do it. We do this first. And, you know, really trying to pull out and guide a way to find an authentic brand.
So I decided to do that about a year and a half ago. And I thought I could just sit down and do it in a month. I was going to do it during that November novel writing month.
And because I’m an overachiever, I started in October and it took forever. I think it was such a big undertaking. I got like halfway through it.
I was like, what am I doing? But I’m really glad I did it. And yeah, I’ve been getting great feedback and talking to a lot of people.
And people come to me and tell me what they created from doing these exercises. So that’s really, really fun.
So we ask everyone who we have on who’s written a book. Any plans for an audiobook?
For me to do an audiobook?
Well, either you or someone else do an audiobook version of your book.
You know, I did. Right away, I was like, oh, I’m going to do it. And then I was like, I can’t.
I’m so in awe of what you guys do, you know, that, yeah, I got way too shy to do it myself.
Are you sure you can make a trade arrangement with one of your clients?
I know. And then I did think about who would I cast to play me in my audiobook. That was kind of a fun game.
Everyone will be jealous who you don’t pick.
I had some takers. Like, I definitely… We were cracking up, like, who could act like me?
And people were making fun of me. My Celia-isms. But, yeah, maybe.
But then we kind of got into it, and there’s so many pictures in this book. It really is a visual guide. So, yeah, I don’t know.
We’ll see. We’ll see. Maybe I’ll cast one of you guys to be me.
It’d be my pleasure, but I don’t know if I can pass for Celia.
Yeah, we’ll see. Maybe on the second edition, I’ll get an audiobook version.
Very nice. Have a whole little video tutorial series for the exercises. It’d be great.
Exactly. Actually, I have gotten so many calls from people who are halfway done that need a little extra push over the ledge that I am creating a video live kind of workshop to finish your Voice Over Achiever brand.
Very cool.
So keep your ears peeled for that. It’s just kind of a middle range between reading the book and working with me one on one.
Awesome.
Excellent. So once again, that book is Voice Over Achiever, and I’m so glad that she mentioned she’s an overachiever because I finally got the title of the book. So that is Voice Over Achiever, Brand Your VO Career, Change Your Life.
And you can find that at Celia’s website, celiasiegel.com, or on Amazon at Voice Over Achiever by Celia Siegel. So I’m so glad that you brought up making appearances at conferences because you go to a lot of them. And I was just curious, why do you feel that these industry conferences are important and both for yourself and your business and VO Talent in general?
You know, it has been… You know, I’ve been in this industry for decades, and the advent of the Voice Over Conference has been so wonderful for our community. Can you imagine if we didn’t all know each other how diminished our days would be?
There’s nothing to look forward to ever.
You know, it’s so cool. Here I am doing an interview with you guys, and I know you, you know? It’s pretty cool.
So I think that on so many levels, the Voice Over Conferences are career building for you guys. And certainly it’s wonderful for me because I get to meet you and share information and learn from you. So yeah, I think I’ve seen every single person who’s gone to their first Voice Over Conference explode.
Their brains explode. And they do better. They connect more.
They make more money. They connect with great coaches that are a good partnership for them. And even just going to the conference and going to all those breakout sessions and learning stuff is…
Yeah, I think it just elevates the whole industry. Do you guys like Voice Over Conferences?
Oh, absolutely. I mean, people who have listened to the podcast know I’ve benefited an almost unfair amount from, say, VO Atlanta. Yeah, I would agree.
Hey, man, I worked for that scholarship.
Sean did the scholarship the first year.
First year. The rest of them are debatable. But I mean, I’m so glad that you said those things, because around this time of year, you start seeing all those messages, conferences coming up soon, like, is it worth the investment?
And yeah, there you go. Like, the networking opportunities, just learning so much about the industry at one place and getting to meet so many people in it. Even if you decide after you go that you’re not going to pursue voice over, it’s still, like, that’s a worthwhile return, instead of spending thousands on equipment and coaching that isn’t going to help you out in the end.
So I’m so glad that you brought up, like, the benefits that you perceive from the conference.
Yeah, I think it’s a really lucky thing that… And there’s so many people that put on such great conferences and the work they put into it. And, yeah, it’s…
Yeah, we are fortunate to have the opportunity to do this together.
Yeah, you probably know and probably tell your clients that one of the things about the conferences, you do definitely get what you put in, though. So you have… At least, I like to tell people to make sure that you participate when you go there.
Don’t be a wallflower. Don’t stand in the corner and not talk to anybody. You have to participate in order to get something back.
And if you do, it’ll come back in spades because everybody is so willing to give of their time and information, including you, Celia. We talked at MAVO, and now here we are doing an interview together.
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think it’s such a friendly community, and the speakers are there because they want to teach and impart information. And you’re actually doing them a favor by coming up and asking them to share their knowledge.
You know, and I know at Voice Over Atlanta, there’s that insane competition with the creating the radio spot.
Yeah, the radio spot. The team challenge.
The team challenge. And it’s like, who in their right mind would do that? Because it’s insane.
But everybody I talk to who does it is like, that was the best thing ever. And they make these lifelong relationships. And people who matter get to hear them perform.
And it’s creating something awesome. And hard work.
Yeah, it’s a harrowing experience. Cliff Zellman actually, he was like, come on, Sean, we need a team for like a month. And they’re like, no, Chloe, I just want to enjoy the conference.
No, no, he’s like, please. And I finally did. And our team won that year.
And it was exactly like what you said. I mean, we built lifelong friendships together. And some of us even got agency representation because they were so impressed with what we produced.
Yep, I remember that year. And it was so impressive. Like, I still remember everybody that was on that team that won.
Like, I’ll remember that, you know?
You ever saw Sean falling up the stairs on the acceptance speech?
Oh, yeah. This close from bleeding out is terrible.
That’s okay. It’s like, what’s her name at the Academy of the Arts?
Oh, my God.
Is that what you were thinking? Because that’s what I said before about it.
Yeah, totally. Totally.
We talked about some conferences that we’ve been to. Tell us about some of the future plans you have for CSM in general. What’s your big picture for the management company in the near term and in the far term?
To brand every single voice over talent in the world to have an awesome career. No, just kidding.
Sounds like your mission statement.
Yeah, my mission statement. Beautiful brands for all.
Nice.
You know, we have it pretty solidly locked in. I mean, we have our one-on-one branding program. I love our management roster and working with talent one-on-one and doing the management side of things.
I guess the new thing on the horizon is the branding class, the master class that I’m doing. That’s kind of the new menu item. And yeah, doing some speaking at some conferences out and about and connecting with people is kind of the CSM business model.
That pretty much wraps up the questions that we have for you, Celia. So I just want to know, because our audience I’m sure wants to know at this point, how do we get ahold of you? How can we find out about your book, about your wonderful services?
How do people get in touch with you?
You know, I have a website, celiacegel.com, and I have all my services on there if you want to check out how to work with me. I’ve got examples of brands. You can read my book, which is available on Amazon.
Follow me on social media, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram. So yeah, I’m out and about. So yeah, we’d love to connect.
And as I mentioned earlier, and I mean it, I do free 15-minute brand consultations with any question you want to come to me with, or you want to pick between this and that, or any burning questions, just shoot me an email, and we’ll get you on the schedule.
Very cool. I think I will do that myself.
Oh yes, I’ve been to your website. So yeah, we’d love to go over that with you.
What was that Paul?
You have some work to do.
Oh, I agree.
Well Celia, thanks again. Can’t thank you enough for joining us, especially with the brief technical delay we had, but it’s kind of our thing. We appreciate you taking the time today.
My pleasure. Thanks you guys so much for having me and all that you do by putting this podcast together for people.
Absolutely. It’s our pleasure to connect our audience with wonderful resources like you.
All right, wow, thank you so much, Celia. I always love learning more about the marketing and branding side, because like many performers, it’s not something that we usually think about. So it’s always good to have that kind of, that particular experience from someone who’s worked with talent, who’s promoted talent, who’s really invested in the success of the people she works with.
Yeah, we can’t thank you enough for being on, Celia. Twice now.
Yeah. So that pretty much wraps up this episode of The VO Meter, but before we go, I wanted to say thank you to one of our oldest sponsors, our first sponsor actually, Vocal Booth To Go. So you’ve been listening to us for a while, you know all about Vocal Booth To Go.
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And this stuff really works. I mean, their VOMO or VO Mobile Booth is one of my favorite portable acoustic solutions. I was actually house-sitting a few weeks ago for a week, and I’m like, it’s fine.
I got my interface. I got my VOMO. And it’s like, if you’re traveling by car especially, it’s the perfect portable solution, because you never have to worry about the consistency of your sound.
Thanks again to Vocal Booth to go. So that pretty much wraps up this episode of the VO Meter.
Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
Stay tuned as we record live from VO Atlanta, hopefully.
Woohoo!
We’re efforting to make that happen. And then after that, we have our British Invasion episode with some talent that have transpired themselves from the UK to America.
Very cool. Really looking forward to that one. And it’s just, ah, like I’m a huge fan of accents and just being surrounded by that much, like wonderful accent input.
I’m really excited about it. So until then, keep following the podcast. If you have any questions, any ideas for topics, or you want to share your own stories for our VO Meter shtick or questionable gear purchases, just let us know.
We’d love to have you on the podcast.
Thanks again. Bye, everybody.
Have a great day. Thanks for listening to this episode of the VO Meter. To follow along, visit us at www.vometer.com.
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