The VO Meter, Measuring Your Voice Over Progress. The VO Meter is brought to you by voiceactorwebsites.com, Vocal Booth to Go, Podcast demos.com, Global Voice Acting Academy, JMC Demos, and IPDTL. And now, your hosts, Paul Stefano and Sean Daeley.
Hi everybody, we have a very special episode of The VO Meter. Sean and I were lucky enough to be guests on Rich Miller’s Audiobook Speakeasy podcast a few weeks ago. We sat down, had a few drinks, a few laughs, talked about audiobooks, and actually came up with some nuggets about the business.
So have a listen and let us know what you think. And thanks so much to Rich for having us on the show. We really enjoyed it.
My guests tonight are fellow podcasters. Two and a half years ago, they started The VO Meter, Measuring Your Voice Over Progress podcast. Paul Stefano and Sean Daeley, thanks for joining me in The Speakeasy tonight.
Hey, thanks for having us.
Happy to be here, happy to be able to drink and have an excuse to do so.
It’s always five o’clock somewhere, Paul.
Exactly.
That’s why you asked us to meet now. It all makes sense.
Speaking of which, Paul, what are you drinking tonight?
Well, I have quite the concoction. I’ve taken some local whiskey, a whiskey called, a rye called the Sagamore Spirit.
Oh, I know Sagamore Spirit. I don’t believe I’ve ever had that, but I have seen it, yeah.
Yeah, it’s very colloquial. It might not be out your way yet, but it’s very popular here. It was founded by the owner of Under Armour, Kevin Plank, and he bought the horse farm that’s based just outside of Baltimore that’s pretty famous for raising thoroughbreds all the way back to the horse war admiral that some of your fans may know from the movie Sea Biscuit.
So that match race that they had at the end was Sea Biscuit versus War Admiral, and War Admiral was bred at this farm that Kevin Plank bought, and then started making whiskey with the water that flows through the spring there. So the rye is done from the spring at the Sagamore Farm. And what I’m having now is a black-eyed rye, and that’s named after the Maryland State flower, which is the black-eyed Susan, and it has, let’s see, some simple syrup.
In this case, I used blueberry, fresh mint, and ginger beer on top of the Sagamore spirit, so cheers.
Wow, so it’s kind of a Kentucky mule with rye instead of bourbon, and blueberry simple syrup.
Yep.
Nice concoction, so I have never heard of that before, so is that from a recipe, or did you just make it up?
It’s a recipe on their website, but it’s the first time I’ve made it, and it’s quite good, actually, I have to say.
Well, what do they call it?
It’s called a black-eyed rye.
Oh, I see, I see.
Oh, gotcha.
So I thought that that was the name of the rye whiskey, but so that’s the name of their drink.
Yeah, and the whiskey itself is just called Sagamore Spirite, that’s all it is.
Got it, okay. Yeah, I know that I’ve heard of that whiskey, I just don’t remember where, and so I don’t know if they distribute out this way or not, but I’ll definitely take a look for it, I’m a big fan of rye.
Well, actually, I should say that the CEO, and I’m in no way being compensated for this, but the CEO of the company, the actual distillery, is a graduate of Northern Arizona University and has actually lived out there for quite a while, so maybe he’s working on bringing it out there, we’ll see.
Nice, yeah, yeah, I’ll definitely take a look for it. Sean, what about you? What are you drinking tonight?
Well, I admit, I don’t usually drink in the booth, so I try to keep it within a closed container, but we’re just having a Wiedmer Brothers Hefeweizen, the original American Hefeweizen, so maybe I shouldn’t use a German accent for it. But Wiedmer is totally a German name, yeah?
Nice, nice. I’m not much of a beer drinker anymore. In fact, I’m not a beer drinker anymore.
But back in my college days, I learned how to pack a little mini dorm fridge with five, six packs of Heineken. And back then, when I did do a little experimenting with beers, I actually really liked a Hefeweizen. That was one of my favorites.
Yeah, I drink the occasional stout, but usually it’s light or wheat beers kind of thing. And I actually got to go to Germany when I was younger as part of an exchange trip. I got to go to Munich in the big Hofbrau house there.
And I think since then, I just had this romantic idea of these golden wheat beers and just mead hauls.
Well, that’s great. All right, well, I am joining you guys in a variation on a theme. It’s a rum Manhattan.
I decided to, I heard this at one point. I think it was on the Whiskey Topic podcast. They were talking about just changing things up and taking something that you know and making it differently.
And I think that that was where I heard the first idea of a rum Manhattan. So I combined that with PJ Oakland’s triple bitters Manhattan, and instead of just using Angostura Bitters for this rum Manhattan, I’m using Angostura Plus Orange Bitters. Plus, because I thought this would go well with the rum, since one of my favorite rums is a cacao infused rum.
Aztec chocolate bitters. And so I am having a rum, a triple bitters rum Manhattan.
Very cool.
I’m feeling very out of my element here. I didn’t even know they had flavored bitters.
Oh my gosh, yeah, the Fee brothers make a whole ton and there are a bunch of different bitters companies now. And Jenny actually bought me, my wife Jenny actually bought me a do-it-yourself bitters book for Christmas a couple of years ago. Unfortunately, I have not yet made any of my own, but I have big plans.
So anyway, this is great. It’s with Dictador 12 year old Colombian rum. And I gotta say, it’s pretty damn good.
Fantastic.
So thanks for joining me guys. Cheers.
Cheers.
Clank. The nearest thing was an iPad. I didn’t want to click that.
Oh no, not a good idea. No reason to clink with an iPad. So Paul, where are you from?
I’m originally from Philadelphia. I came here to go to a local university called Towson State University.
Where is here?
And I’m in Baltimore, Maryland, or just outside.
Got it, okay.
And met my wife here and I’ve been here ever since. So it’s been, let’s see, 20, 26 years, 25 years.
Oh, wow, so you grew up in Philly, but then as soon as you left for school, that was pretty much it.
Right, and it’s not that far away. It’s only about a 90-mile drive. So I do get back quite often.
Most of my family’s still there, but I have not lived full… Yeah, I mean, pretty much the whole Eastern Seaboard is really accessible by car. I drive to New York quite frequently.
I’ve even driven to Boston from here. But yeah, I came here after college and just sort of stayed.
Cool, I’m just not that familiar with the geography. I was talking to Tonya Eby recently, and she was talking about Chicago, and it’s like, you know, Chicago is one of the big four cities in the country, and I just don’t know anything around that area. I grew up in California, and I just didn’t get out very much when I was a lot younger.
So that’s cool. Sounds like you’re close to home. You still have family back in the Philly area.
Yeah, exactly. In fact, I was just there last weekend. So it’s just a hop, skip, and a jump, as they say, back in the home area.
90 minutes, not hard. Sean, what about you?
Well, I spent most of my life in Washington State. There was a brief stint in California when I was very young, like maybe a few months to six years old. And then, let’s see, then spent kind of a couple years back and forth between Washington State and Japan, of all places.
So when I was younger, my family moved over to Okinawa when I was like 10 to 15, and then moved back to Washington, and then finished high school and college there. And then over the summers, while I was getting my grad degree, I started going back to Japan, working at these like English summer camps. And then when I finally finished school, God, I was there, like I could practically have a doctorate with how many years I was there.
But anyways, when I finished that, I decided to pursue teaching there professionally over there for about four years in Nagasaki, in the southern part, and place the southern island of Kyushu. So for people who don’t know, Japan’s kind of divided into like four island areas. So Kyushu is the southernmost one.
So Okinawa from the US, that sounds, that just makes me think military. Are you an army brat by any chance?
Navy brat, actually.
Navy brat, all right.
So dad was Navy, mom was Air Force, but both of them actually had medical jobs. So dad was a developmental pediatrician. So he worked with a lot of families who had, I mean, who had, he was a children’s doctor and he specialized in kids with special needs.
And then mom was a nurse, but since the Air Force didn’t really have any hospitals, she went into family counseling. So, or what was called family advocacy. So she would kind of talk to parents and like beginning families about how to adjust to the military life, like when a spouse is gone for so long and how do you raise a family without them, things like that.
Do you ever think about going into the military?
No.
Nice fast answer there.
I’m too free of a spirit. I don’t like being told what to do.
Got it. So you did teaching for a while. And what were you teaching?
It was English as a second language. And so that was for… It was interesting.
It was through this program called JET, or Japanese Exchange Teaching. It’s one of the largest English teaching companies that has an agreement with the US. And it’s actually run by the Japanese consulate.
And so not only were we supposed to be like English teachers, but we were also cultural representatives. So that kind of thing. So we are expected to impart all of our American-ness to these kids in like 45-minute intervals over…
Yeah, I’m sure that that was a challenge.
Totally effective. Yeah, very well organized.
Got it. So, Paul, if I’m remembering correctly, you are or are not full-time voice over at this point.
I am not. I’m working my way there. I work part-time.
I’ll stop talking.
Well, I don’t want you to stop talking. So what is it that you’ve been doing for work for the past 26 years since you’ve been in Baltimore?
Well, I’ve had a multitude of jobs in various different industries. I started out in television. So I have a degree.
My undergraduate degree was in broadcast journalism. So I had a job doing master control at a satellite company. I started a couple of websites.
My first voiceover job was while I was working for the EasyPass system. That’s the toll collection service here on the East Coast. I’m not sure if they’ve gone out to the West Coast, but basically when you go through a toll on a lot of the highways on the East Coast, instead of paying money, you have this transponder that picks up the account.
Yeah, they had those for the bridges in the Bay Area when I lived in the Bay Area, but I did so little commuting that I never looked into it. I don’t know if it’s the same company or what, but they definitely had something like that.
Okay. So yeah, my first job voiceover related was that they didn’t pay me for it. I was doing customer service there, but they were installing a new phone system.
They said, hey, you have a good voice. Why don’t you record this for us? So I did that, and I think I’m still the on hold voice, if you call there to the Maryland Payment Center and are put on hold.
I think it’s still me saying, please hold me with you as soon as we possibly can. And then I did-
So friendly and soothing.
I’m not like my normal voice, right? So then I did a couple of internet websites. I started up doing quality assurance and stress testing, beta testing on websites.
Then I was a financial advisor, then I worked for the Baltimore Orioles, the Major League Baseball team.
Were you a pitcher?
And then I moved. I was not a pitcher, although during those years, I probably could have stepped onto the mound for the team. I just worked in the front office doing ticket sales.
And then I moved to my current company, where I still am for a couple hours a week as a data entry person in the registrar’s office of an online university.
So that is quite a few different jobs. What was it that convinced you that broadcast journalism was not where you were going to stay?
People telling me I wasn’t good at it. I tried, I tried like heck.
You should let that stop you.
I sent out, back then, tapes and CDs to every station in the country. I thought I was going to be on TV. I don’t want to be a news anchor.
So I sent out tapes and resumes to everywhere I could think of. And the only problem was I didn’t really want to move. And living on the East Coast, in between two large cities, as we mentioned, I’m from Philadelphia, and I now live in the Baltimore, or they call it the Baltimore Washington Market, I was never going to get a job out of college here.
So if I wanted to get a job, I had to move. And I decided it wasn’t as important to me as starting a family and making some money.
Yeah. I’ve heard that about all types of media, is that you really have to be prepared to move to wherever you can get the job, whether it’s the middle of Montana for a tiny station or some big market on a small station or whatever it is. But I’ve heard that for radio, TV, all kinds of media.
Yeah, Montana is the one I used to always reference. That was one of the only callbacks I ever got, was from a station in Missoula, Montana.
No kidding.
And I was like, nope, I’m not moving there.
I can’t blame you. Nothing against Montana, but I have an aversion to very cold weather that lasts for a long time. So I don’t know what the climate is like in Baltimore.
I suspect that it’s too cold for me.
It’s pretty temperate. I mean, we probably top out at, well, we get to 100 sometimes in the summer, but in the winter, we never really get colder than, well, 10, if it’s a really bad winter. But generally around the 30s is where we bottom out in the winter.
Yeah, here in Tucson, we tend to bottom out right around 30, but winter lasts like three weeks. So that’s good for me. So then you got into voice over sort of at one of your employers, and later on down the road, what made you think, you know, I should look into this more and do more of it?
Well, the same situation played itself out again at my current company. One of the things they do is online courses for college students. And they were looking for volunteers, again, not looking to pay anybody, to do voice overs for their online content, some e-learning.
So I did and had a lot of fun doing it and said, this is something I’d like to do more of. And I kind of always had that itch that I really wanted to do something media related. And when I started to do research and looked online at some of the places, like the VOBB, where we first met, you know, virtually.
Oh yeah, I remember.
And watching some other podcasts and webcasts, I learned that I could set it up pretty quickly with my past knowledge and get ramped up pretty quickly. So I did, and I’ve been pursuing it as hard as I can ever since.
Yeah, that’s great. How long ago was that?
It’s been three and a half years, coming up on four years.
Oh, that’s not long at all.
No, it’s not in the grand scheme of things. I kind of forget how recently I’ve really been trying. So yeah, it’s kind of ironic that it’s only been three and a half years.
Long distance race. So Sean, you were doing the teaching thing. What made you think about voiceover?
How’d that get into your head?
Well, to be honest, I feel like it was always in my head from a very young age. Really? Yeah.
I think, because I mean, I was doing voices with my brother as early as like five. I remember doing like Donald Duck with my brother Tristan. He was seven.
I was five. We were just going back and forth. Like, this one and so are you!
And stuff like that. And so, like I, I don’t know, I just, back then, as a child, like most of us didn’t understand that those are like people who are voicing the characters. I just wanted to live in a cartoon.
So, but yeah, that itch was always there. And as I grew up, I was like a pretty gregarious and rambunctious kid. I did like all sorts of creative stuff.
I was in theater. I was in band. I was like, yeah, like I said, I was a band geek and a drama nerd and just penultimate nerd, basically.
So you were in band. I’m going to guess brass.
Why do you say that? You’re right, but I’m just curious.
Because I was in band. And I’m just thinking, you know, the way that you’re talking and everything, I’m just thinking of the people that I’ve known. So I’m guessing brass.
I’m guessing trumpet.
Absolutely. Two for two. And you’re very right.
Trumpet players are always trouble. I was a band geek too.
Oh, no kidding. What did you play? I’m guessing woodwind for you.
Nailed it. Clarinet and saxophone.
That’s exactly what I did.
There’s definitely personality types who do certain instruments. And like you’re saying, brass tends to be the rambunctious and loud types.
Well, that’s great. So you did all kinds of creative stuff through school. Have you kept up with any music or acting on stage?
I did do community theater as I got older. As voiceover started taking off, though, I had less time for that. But I mean, that was kind of how I scratched that itch.
And ever since I was about 18, my brother and friends were trying to start a band, and then they were like, we need a bassist. So of course, that fell on me. And basically, I was like, I’m not dexterous enough to learn guitar, but maybe four strings, I can handle that.
There you go. So I played that for a while. Yeah, I love most creative endeavors, I like going to the theater, or going to the theater.
Like I said, I did. And when I was in school, I actually minored in theater just because I didn’t want to… I didn’t pursue it much more than that because everyone’s like, there’s no money in it, you’re never going to be successful.
And from an early age, I had always wanted to be an English teacher just because I loved the language, I loved the storytelling aspects, and even the grammar nerd stuff. And some of my most memorable mentors were English teachers. So I wanted to kind of share that love of language and love of communication with the next generation, if you will.
So that’s cool. So you did get into teaching and now you’re more on the creative side. Are you doing voiceover full time at this point or are you still teaching?
I’d say like three quarter time, just because the majority of what I do is related to VO. And like in my free time, I just kind of lifeguard and teach water aerobics and stuff like that. And I get a free gym membership.
Well that’s good. Free gym membership. Hard to beat that.
So that’s cool. So you’re both really pursuing it pretty aggressively. So Sean, how long ago was this when you got into voiceover much more aggressively?
I’d say about seven years ago when I was like…
So a little bit longer than Paul.
And I’m a bit of a slow bird. But anyways, yeah, so it was after my first year teaching in Japan, because that was kind of my first big boy job. So I finally had all this disposable income that I was of course spending completely on VO stuff.
So whether it was… Yeah, exactly. Oh God, don’t even…
Believe it or not, there was a time when I was actually afraid of those kind of purchases and I just like… Nowadays, I’m like, ah… Maybe it’s like…
We won’t go into a questionable gear purchase section just now. Just yet, just yet. I know that there have been plenty in both of your lives.
Yeah, but I’m recovering. I like to call that gear pressuring, but anyways. So, yeah, after my first year in Japan, I basically spent…
Once I knew that’s what I wanted to do, I spent an entire year just researching.
Oh, that’s fantastic.
Yeah, and that’s something that I wish I saw more of, frankly. But like I said, I spent an entire year just reading things. So I would buy books.
I would read the articles on Voice Over Extra or on VOBB, which is probably how I found out about you as well.
I mean, I’ve been on VOBB. I don’t visit it much lately, but I was not one of the original members, but I know that I found VOBB… Jeez, I’m thinking it must have been 2004, 2006, something like that.
I’ve had an account there for many years. That was where I met Kafer, too.
The old guard. Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
That’s too cool. But yeah, so I would just read as much as I could, and at that time, I didn’t understand all of it, but I would just try and read as much as I could between the VOBB and Voice Over Extra, and this was right around the time where you’re getting shows like Rob Paulson’s Talkin Tunes and VO Buzz Weekly and VOBS, like formerly EWABs. And so I just spent that whole year just trying to absorb as much information about it as I could, and reading blogs from like Dave Kravatsyay or Paul Strickverda and things like that.
I love Paul’s…
Strickverda.
You don’t have to say it so angrily every time.
I love his recent column, sort of geared towards new people in the industry.
I recommend that to anybody.
So quite a while, seven years, Paul three and a half, probably. But one of the main reasons I want to talk to you guys is because your focuses are quite different. Or your foci, bringing out the math geek in me.
Quite different. So Paul, you’ve done a substantial number of audiobooks. What made you decide to pursue audiobooks as part of your voiceover career for the past three and a half or four years or whatever it’s been?
Well, kind of like Sean, I’m not sure if he even knows this, but I spent probably six months to a year doing the same thing, just reading up on voiceover and ways to get started and researching before I recorded the darn thing. And for me, I thought audiobooks were an easy entry into the business, I have to admit. I know better now, but it seemed to me that was a quick way to start.
And I jumped in pretty quickly after I did that research into ACX and started putting myself out there for jobs. And I got some pretty quickly, almost immediately. And from there, I just kind of never stopped.
I always have one or two projects going because I found out I enjoyed it. And aside from my initial misconceptions about it being an easy way to get work, it’s where I still get hired the most. So I audition for all kinds of genres and I do a fair amount of work in all of them.
But audiobooks are still by far where I get the most bang for my buck, so to speak, on marketing.
So it seems to me that I heard you say that recently on the VO Meter that you were, because it’s been working well for you, you are putting that much more effort into it lately. Is that correct?
Absolutely. I didn’t really realize it was happening until I went back and one, did my taxes, and two, looked closely or more closely at where my work was coming from. And Sean and I are part of this meetup group that meets now bi-weekly, used to be weekly.
And sort of at the beginning of the year, all of us in this group sat down and did this assessment of where our work was coming from. And it was without a doubt, for me, audiobooks. So I’m definitely pursuing it more.
I’ve just this in the past two months, I’ve had my first job with a publisher, and I’m going to APAC next month. So I’m really putting…
Is this gonna be your first APAC?
This will be my first APAC, yes.
I will see you there.
Oh, awesome. So yeah, definitely focusing more on it now than I ever have, and it just makes sense because that’s where I was seeing all the results. So it just makes sense to pursue the genres that are working for you.
Yeah, that’s great to take that step of actually kind of analyzing what’s been happening instead of just going, doop-do-doo, oh, voiceover work, and actually seeing where everything is coming from. And the Meetup group that you mentioned, is that the one that you guys did a podcast episode on?
Yeah, exactly.
That was a great episode. I really appreciated the fact that you actually shared one of the Meetups that you did, so that it wasn’t just about, you should be in a VO Meetup group. Thanks, that’s it for tonight.
It was really, this is why. Here’s what we do. And people could get a good sense of what the benefits of doing that are.
And so it sounds like this was one of those benefits. You actually got to analyze what you’ve been doing and what’s been working. And so that’s great.
So you are focusing more on audiobooks.
Yeah, it’s funny, just as I say that, I’m hit with this giant e-learning project that I can’t climb out of several dozen hours a week.
Wow, no kidding.
That’s just how it works sometimes.
That’s a lot of work, several dozen hours a week?
Yeah.
That’s a big project.
It is, but it’s paying well. And soon as we get off here, I’m gonna do some more.
Well, that’s good. So a lot of your titles are, I mean, I looked you up on Audible and a lot of your titles are really short. Now, it’s frequently advised in the online groups that I know you belong to, that I belong to for audiobooks, that people getting into audiobooks don’t focus on short titles, but rather on full-length books that are the kind of books that they wanna work on for major publishers.
What is it that kind of drove you to those short titles originally?
I’m an idiot.
I mean, that’s part of it. I would certainly not say that about, anybody who makes that choice, but is it just one of those things where… Because I also know at least one person who has said that they did one short title that’s done very well for them, and that’s what they wanna focus on.
Now, from what I know, I don’t think that’s a good long-term plan, but for this one person, maybe it is. So I certainly wouldn’t say you’re an idiot. I’m just interested in why it is that that was something that you did, and as a follow-up, whether or not you would recommend that to anybody.
It sounds like the answer to that is no.
Well, I’m being partially facetious, but part of it was just pure gumption. Sean will tell you that I will try anything and hope that it sticks. And I had an initial goal of reaching this magic number of 25 titles because somebody told me that you could be an audible approved producer if you had 25 titles.
So I set that goal early on, and I thought the easiest way to get there would be to do shorter titles. And it worked. I got there pretty quickly, and I am an audible approved producer.
In fact, they reached out to me this week about being featured in an upcoming blog about being an audible approved producer. So I met that goal, and whether that was the right decision remains to be seen. I don’t know that it’s hurt me yet, but I also haven’t talked to anybody who’s told me that they think that’s a detriment to me personally.
I know from the industry standards it’s not the best way to approach the business, and I get that now. But just being stubborn more than anything, once I put that goal in front of me, that carrot, I really wanted to reach it, and I did. So I don’t regret doing it, but definitely now I’m focusing on longer titles that will be a better image for my portfolio, and I think that’s happening for the last couple of months.
I’m not sure if you looked up my pseudonym, and that’s another question. I apologize for jumping ahead, but all the titles I’ve done for my pseudonym have been longer titles, and they have been pretty successful.
Well, that’s a good question.
Advice is not wrong.
That’s a good question. Do you out your pseudonym, or is that something that you keep completely separate?
Frequently. I don’t think I’ve done it by saying the actual name, but I mean, I tell people in person, I’d rather not put it out on the podcast, because I haven’t done it on ours either.
Okay, that’s fine.
But suffice it to say, it’s due to being in the erotica genre, which I have no problem doing, but because I don’t want to mix those two portfolios, I do like to keep it separate.
Okay, no, that’s totally fair. I always ask people ahead of time, because I don’t want to actually use the pseudonym name, which I’m aware of in this case. And usually, well, half the time, I am aware of that somebody has a pseudonym.
But I know that there are some people who immediately say, oh, my pseudonym is, and they talk about the books that they do under that name, and they do it for a specific reason. And there are other people who say, absolutely do not do that. If you out me, I will never speak to you again, because I’m doing this for a very specific reason, and I do not want to be associated with that work.
It’s not that I don’t want to do it. It’s that whether it’s because they have small children or whatever the reason, they want it to be, or just marketing, they want it to be completely separate. And I totally respect that.
So if you don’t want to mention the name, that’s absolutely fine. But clearly, you’re okay talking about…
You’re aware of the name of mine?
Yeah, because you told me.
Clearly, I’m bad at keeping a secret.
No, in an email, you mentioned it.
Like I said, I’m not the best at keeping a secret in person.
So that’s fine. Clearly, you’re okay talking about the fact that you do work under a pseudonym, and it’s because it’s in the erotica genre. Is there anything that you have…
Is there any type of audiobook work that you have turned down or that you would turn down because of the type of work that it is?
No. And one is because I’ll take the money from anybody. And two, because I honestly feel that whatever somebody is into, for whatever reason, it’s their business, and I don’t need to be judgmental about it.
Right. I’m not just talking about erotica, though. I mean, there’s political things, religious things.
I recently did a book on… Sorry, go ahead.
Just, you know, there are people who have political boundaries and religious boundaries, and erotica boundaries, various different things like that. And so I’m just wondering if there’s anything, not just erotica, that you would take a look at and go, you know what, I’m not even going to audition for that because I wouldn’t want to put my name on that.
No, same thing. I recently did a book about right-wing conspiracy theories. No problem with that whatsoever, even though I’m a registered Democrat.
No, fair enough. And how’s the pseudonym work going?
Well, he… I’ll mention it’s a he.
That’s not a big surprise, Paul.
Yeah, I know. He is by far much more popular than I am. All of my highest-paying titles and most reviewed are by the pseudonym.
I have some of them that have over 50 reviews and are really well received, whereas most of the ones I’ve done in my own name do not get that kind of traction.
Cool, so it sounds like you have good reason to continue to put a lot of effort into the audiobook world as part of the VO career.
Yeah, and my only question now is whether I need to put full-time work into marketing the pseudonym. I’ve worked with Sean Pratt, who I know Sean has worked with as well, and I think you have too, Rich? Oh, yeah, yeah.
And he definitely encouraged me to do that, to just go full-bore marketing the pseudonym website, Business Cars, The Whole Nine Yards. I haven’t got to that point yet, mostly because it’s like Seinfeld. You ever watch that episode where he accidentally got into a threesome and he said, I don’t want to be an orangey guy.
I’m not an orangey guy.
That’s a pretty good cherry.
I don’t want to go down that road entirely. Right, right.
Well, that makes sense. So Sean, let’s move over to you. So I also checked your name on Audible and didn’t find anything.
And so that’s the reason that because you guys started your podcast when you were both fairly new into voiceover and you have clearly gone in somewhat different directions, depending on how much more Paul goes into audiobooks, maybe, you know, quite, quite different directions, but you have not focused on audiobooks. And so I’m really interested for you as a voice actor, why it is that that was not something that as you were looking at the various different parts of the voiceover world that you could get into, you chose not to.
Well, there’s a lot of different reasons. And it’s funny that like Paul, I actually viewed it early back in the day as a easy way to break into the VO industry and oh, how wrong I was.
Yeah, I don’t think that you two are alone in that.
And so to answer your question, there was a lot of reasons, especially because when I was researching this, I was living in Japan and it wasn’t, I did not have a practical place to record. I was recording out of a small apartment, but I happened to be on the street with a, let’s see, with a hospital, a police station, a fire station, and a street car.
It was loud, man. I remember that place. That’s insane.
Oh, that’s right, during our old VO Vanguard meetings. That’s right. It was horrible.
But yeah, so I mean, and when I was building my voiceover career and it was really pushing hard to kind of get my shingle out there, there was a six month period where I had my day job. So I would get up at 6.30, I would be at work from about eight to four or five, and then I’d come home. I’d sleep for five hours, eat something, and then record and edit from 11 to four, and then do it all over again.
Yeah, so just for people to have an example of the lengths you can go to to try and get your foot in the door.
I’ve definitely heard a few of those examples in audiobooks as well as other areas of voiceover and other careers as well. But wow, that’s dedication.
Thank you, thank you. But it’s funny because I mean, I do other forms of narration. I mean, the bulk of what I do is like e-learning or corporate narration.
It’s just a slightly different beast. Mm-hmm. But like there, and I will say I love audiobooks.
I love listening to them. I love researching authors and narrators and stuff like that. But I feel like just the way that I operate is a little bit like it’s, it was difficult because I didn’t have, I’ve done a couple like mainly volunteer stuff for Learning Ally or LibriVox and things like that.
Oh yeah, Learning Ally is a great organization.
Absolutely, and they like my stuff. So I’m like, all right, I do have the capacity for it, but it was like my own frustration with the process or not having a process that made it difficult. So like I didn’t realize that just the sheer amount of time it can take to do, like I’m not used to working on one project for two weeks to a month, you know?
And so, and also about a year ago when I was like re-examining it, I actually had a couple of health issues that I was dealing with. Some like a bad back injury, and I have tendonitis in both elbows from bass playing like we talked about before. So long periods of sitting, standing, or editing were not good for me.
And so like, but I’ll have you guys, you guys will be happy to know I’ve been doing written really good about the PT lately and like energy levels are back up. I can sit and stand and edit comfortably now. And that’s part of why I was kind of re-examining getting back into it.
And so like in other areas too, I would see on the various audiobook forums, people being frustrated with royalty share books. And I decided early on that I was not gonna do royalty share unless it was a subject that I was passionate about. And I had difficulty kind of branding myself, kind of like I’ve got like a young, but articulate sound and I didn’t know what would be appropriate for that.
And so, but like now it’s obvious. I was like, oh, YA lit, children’s lit, stuff like that. But even that was difficult to find on ACX.
And so, but here we go, like about a week or two ago, I found like five different per finished hour books that I would be interested in doing. So it’s just like, you know, mindset is important. So like sometimes when you have an openness to opportunity, they present themselves.
So I’m trying to take another crack at it. And I have, now I have a much better understanding of what’s required, both technically and systematically. So I think it’ll be much more positive results this time around.
Well, so when you first started, you were in Japan and you were on a busy street with sirens going off all night, and you had to record in the middle of the night. And I’m sure that even that was difficult with those things around you. You’re not still there though.
So what’s your recording environment like now?
Oh, it’s much better. I mean, I’m in rural Washington right now in a quaint little place called Port Orchard, senior Tacoma.
I actually know Port Orchard. My grandfather used to live there.
No kidding. That’s ridiculous.
Yeah.
Like, I’m… Man, like, I’m not as good at six degrees of separation as Paul is, but like, recently, we just talked with Pat Fraley and he’s a fellow Seattle guy. He actually lived about 20 minutes from where I am now.
In Bremerton.
Yeah, in Bremerton, exactly.
Yeah, I heard that on the little short clip that you posted for the podcast and I thought, yep, my grandfather lived there too. So, I’m actually, you know, vaguely familiar with that area. We went up there a couple of times back then and I had an uncle who lived out on one of the, you know, bazillion islands out in that way, but I can’t remember the name of it right now.
So, anyway, so now you don’t have a police station, a fire station, and a hospital right downstairs, right?
Thank God, yeah. Now we only have to worry about the neighbor’s dogs or our donkey every now and then. That’s pretty funny.
Like straight up, yee-haw!
I’m not sure that I even want to ask about that. So, the recording situation is better. What about the hours?
Are you still recording at like the middle of the night?
Only when I want to. Like, I’m naturally a night owl, so like if I’m up and I’m feeling productive, like I’ll work during those times, either editing or occasionally voicing stuff. But overall, it’s a much more conducive environment to that.
So, it wasn’t so much a survival situation of like I gotta do it now when it’s quiet, versus I have much larger blocks of time when it’s incapable of recording.
That’s good. So, it looks like right now, you are gonna be doing more in the audiobook world.
Yes, I definitely plan on it. And I’m trying to, like we said, focus on like Young Adult Lit. I’m a huge fan of sci-fi and fantasy, so I would love to do more books like that.
But as I’m listening to you and Paul, I do realize it’s important to branch out into areas of things that you’re not interested in so much. But I mean, as actors, it’s our job to make it sound like we are.
Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things that I hear from, I have heard from several people, is they have turned work down, not specifically because they didn’t agree with the content, but because they knew that because of the content, they weren’t going to be able to do the kind of job that the work needed to be a professional, you know, this sounds great kind of thing. And I really respect that for somebody who is willing to do it, but then looks at it and says, I can’t do this to the level of perfection that you’re going to need for this or that you will want for this.
It’s definitely a perfectionist mindset, I find, because it’s just like, I mean…
Well, it’s a professional mindset, right? Well, that too.
Yeah.
If you’re being professional about it, you’re going to respect the craft and the writing. I just did this with a book with somebody from our meetup group, not because I didn’t agree with the content, but because the story took place in Northern Wisconsin and every town was a colloquial pronunciation that I could not do being from the East Coast. So I backed out of it.
I actually had the contract and I backed out and said, I’m not right for this. And I sent it to our friend from our meetup group, John Rorta, who’s from Chicago and already has that Midwestern accent. He completed it.
He nailed it. There’s already one review out there. That’s a five-star review.
So it’s just sometimes it’s the right thing to do. It is.
I had one of those as well where somebody who I’d worked with several times before that, and it was a really important project for him. But he said, there’s a lot of French in it. Do you speak French?
And I said, no. And I’m thinking to myself, no, but I’m pretty good with accents. It’s just something that hasn’t been super difficult, except for Scottish.
And so I thought, yeah, I’ll take a look at it. And so I looked at it, and as soon as I was only like five or 10 pages in, and there were already like five or 10 cities plus a paragraph plus something else, and I thought, you know, my wife speaks French and she can help me with this, but for this, there’s no way. I cannot do this justice.
It would take me forever to get this right, and he doesn’t deserve to wait that long for this product. And it’s probably still not gonna be quite right. And so I had to back out of it as well.
And I think that in those situations, like you were just describing, Paul, that’s the right thing to do.
Yeah, absolutely. It’s just called being a pro.
There you go.
Yeah, sometimes you have to accept that you’re not the best person for the job.
Yep, yeah, that’s great. Well, that’s good, Sean. I’m glad to hear that it sounds like you are going to be pursuing audiobooks.
Of course, it remains to be seen how much you like it, whether you want to continue with that. I mean, I think that is true for all of us in all genres, in all careers. It’s like, well, this seems like this might work out.
This might be good, but you’re not gonna know until you do it. Or do more of it, in your case.
No, absolutely. And like I said, I think for people who are interested in getting involved with this, like, try it out. Like, it can be intimidating.
And I know we just sort of talked about, like, oh, stay away from shorter projects. But honestly, I wish I had started with shorter projects. So I did not intimidate myself out of it before, while I was still interested, you know?
No, I do. And I would say, to follow up on that previous conversation we had about the short projects, is it is important to realize, I think, that there is a difference between high-quality short books and crap. And unfortunately, the reason that I think that this advice is out there is because the vast majority of the really short things that are, like, under an hour are not quality material.
But it is possible to get a short book that is only two hours, that is just sort of an informational type of thing, that has valuable information. So I just think that you can be discerning and find shorter projects.
And I love that you said be discerning. Do your research. Like, I’m not a fan of blanket absolutes.
So yeah, use your judgment.
Yeah, I didn’t get a chance to add this in because you asked and I forgot. But one of the short titles I did was on sales techniques and specifically emotional intelligence. It was about three hours of basically how to read people.
And that was worthwhile content. And to date, it’s my best selling title of any kind of book. It’s got over a thousand copies sold by itself.
It was a royalty share book that has done quite well for me. So like you said, if you pick the right content and it’s a worthwhile, it’s a well-written book that it’s worth doing.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I’ve got a couple that are that short that I would also say are high quality content and one that is not. You know, it happens.
You pick something and you go, I think this will be okay. And then you do it and go, oh God, I wish I hadn’t done that.
Oh, I have quite a few of those.
It happens. So Paul, what about your recording situation? I assume that you are recording mostly or entirely at home.
Yeah, I have yet to do anything outside the home. Yeah, so I have a studio set up in a spare bedroom in my 1970s colonial house with my wife and three kids, which makes things interesting. I think that’s my biggest challenge really is keeping the noise from inside the house, from getting in the booth.
I use a whisper room, a single walled one that I added some drywall myself to. That’s a lie. I hired somebody to put the drywall in.
No shame, no shame.
And then I treated it quite a bit on the inside with some blankets and some base traps. And then I use now, and as you’ve talked about in our show, it’s a theme that I have a different mic every week, at least I did for the first couple of years. But now I use an MKH416, a Sennheiser, for pretty much everything.
Although right now I’m talking to you from my Shure SM58, the stage mic that everyone tells you you should never use for voiceover, but I have like a dozen books out on this thing and it sounds good.
Well, it’s funny because, or sorry to interrupt, it’s just like a lot of people say that the 416 is another mic you should never use specifically for audiobooks. And I use it for everything, like long form narration, like audiobooks, when I do them. Like, it sounds fine, not for everyone.
Well, like you, Sean, I think that blanket absolutes are generally unhelpful. And I think that…
Nice joke in an audiobook speakeasy, Paul. But I’m pumped.
You gotta do at least third shelf here though, come on.
I respect Rich. I really don’t think that blanket absolutes are all that helpful. I will say that sometimes depending on the forum and I think that Facebook posts and comments where you’re really not spending more than a few sentences, sometimes a blanket statement is understandable.
But when it comes to microphones, I think that saying that a 416 is a terrible mic for audiobooks is probably not really gonna be true in 100% of the cases. I think that it’s gonna depend on room, treatment, and voice, just like it always does for all mics. So I don’t have a 416.
I hope to get one at some point. I also hope to get a U87, and I know that that’s complete overkill, but I’ve used one in studios before, and my voice sounded good on it, and I like the mic. And so I’m gonna buy one someday, and I’ll buy a 416, and I’ll probably buy a few other ones.
Some of them may be questionable gear purchases, but I’ll buy some other ones. And so if the 416 works, that’s great, the SM58, I gotta say, I’m surprised that you’ve used that on audiobooks. It sounds fine now, but we’re talking on Skype, so.
Yeah, I found that in some cases, because, in my case particularly, because of the sound I mentioned from the outside, because of the way it doesn’t pick up every little nuance, which I know is something you shouldn’t do for audiobooks, no absolute.
Or any nuance.
Right. It’s been helpful to me. When my kid next door is banging on his bedroom wall because he lost in Fortnite, this mic won’t pick that up.
416 will.
Well, I know another mic that you’ve used often too is like another Shure is the SM7B. And that’s like, it’s got its lovers and its haters because it’s a broadcast radio mic and stuff like that. But one of my mentors and prolific audiobook narrator, Carol Monda, that’s her main mic.
I love the SM7B, it’s a great sound. I found the one time that I used one, it was a good sound for my particular voice. I’m sure that’s not true for everybody because everybody’s different.
Yeah, what are you using now, Rich?
Rode NT1A.
Nice, oh wow.
I bought this mic.
Really?
Yeah, oh yeah, I bought this mic I think in 2002, 2003, something like that. Used it ever since.
Because that’s when you’ll hear, again, blanket statements from the Peanut Gallery on Facebook that it’s not good on deep male voices.
Absolutely. And I would, again, I would disagree as a blanket statement. Might be true sort of in general.
I don’t know, but it has worked fine for me. I know that the one comment that I’ve heard most frequently about the NT1A is that it’s brittle. I think that George Widdum was one of the first people I heard say that.
And I don’t disagree. There have been times when I’ve used it, you know that your own voice changes from different times of the day and different times of the week, and depending on whether you’re sick or how hydrated you are or whatever it is, there have been times when I have thought that there was a problem with the high end. I’ve never thought that there was a problem with this mic on my voice for the low end.
So, you know, I just think that every mic is gonna be different, and that’s why the best advice that I see frequently online is, you know, people can recommend a mic to you all day since you’re asking for a recommendation, but until you actually try these mics, you’re not gonna know until you listen to it.
Mm-hmm, absolutely. And it sounds great on you. I mean, like, you’ve got such a rich, bassy voice that it’s like, it kind of balances that out.
Yeah, it has worked for me so far, and so that’s what I’m using. And like I said, I look forward to upgrading the mic at some point when I can, when it makes sense, but for right now, it’s working, and that’s great, so. Anyway, so that’s me, and I think that you guys probably know, because I posted about this all over the place online, that I built my own booth a year ago, and it has definitely helped with keeping the sound out.
So you guys, what do you do when you are not narrating or working in your other jobs? Paul, what are you doing when you’re not? I know that you, with three kids and a wife and regular jobs and the voice over thing, which you are clearly putting a lot of time into, I can’t imagine that you have a whole ton of free time, but what do you do when you’re not doing this type of stuff?
Yeah, I have almost no free time. It’s all with the kids.
Yeah.
I do a lot of coaching of youth sports.
Oh, no kidding.
I don’t get too sentimental, but my dad was a musician, or still is a musician actually, and was really never around to be able to help out by coaching a team when I was a kid. He was always there to watch, but never was out there, the guy with the bat hitting the ball. So I sort of made it a point to be the opposite and coach everything.
So I coached my daughter’s soccer team and softball, both my son’s basketball and soccer and baseball. And so I’m always out doing something. In fact, I’m still wearing the clothes I wore to the baseball field an hour ago.
When I finished up with my 11-year travel team. Well, that’s basically all I do.
I’m glad I’m not in your booth with you then.
Yeah, it’s not a pretty sight. It’s all baseball dirt, and the hair’s all disheveled because I had a hat on for the last couple of hours. But yeah, I spend almost all my time coaching my kids’ sports teams or helping out with their activities.
My daughter is a musician now too. She plays guitar and sings, so I’m schlepping her around to different lessons and concerts. So that’s basically all my free time.
And I’m not complaining. It’s just how it goes when you have three kids who are under 15.
Sure, yeah. How old are you kids?
13, 11, and seven.
Oh man, that’s a lot of energy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I have a birthday party this weekend for my son who’s gonna have nine screaming other 11 year olds in my house all weekend. So there won’t be any recording done this weekend.
So 10 times as much energy then.
Exactly.
Sean, what about you? Do you have like four or five kids yourself?
Luckily, no. And hopefully none that I’m not aware of. Let’s see, free time, what is that?
No, let’s see, so I didn’t mention this earlier, but I also do a lot of work for Global Voice Acting Academy.
Oh, that’s right, yeah, I forgot about that.
So, and if you can, like if you’re trying to find survival gigs while you do VO, try and do it in the industry. So yeah, I’m what’s called the member liaison for that. I am responsible for the membership program and kind of making sure our members take full advantage of the benefits that we offer.
And other than that, I’m just hanging out with friends. I’ve recently become a bit of a D&D nerd or Dungeons and Dragons.
No kidding, wow, that’s great. I remember when that was pretty much brand new back when I was in college. Might’ve actually been brand new when I was in high school, but I didn’t know about it till I was in college.
And I know I have friends who have been in the past and continue to be big D&D nerds.
Well, what did it for me is that before I was leaving Japan, a friend of mine was letting me stay at his house because I no longer, the lease on my apartment was done. And so he was like, hey man, you need to watch the show called Critical Role, which is voice actors playing Dungeons and Dragons together. So I had had a couple of middling experiences growing up that weren’t like, I don’t know, it was kind of bittersweet, wasn’t really great kind of thing.
And then when I saw what it was capable of, I was entranced, honestly. And then about a month after that, I met my current girlfriend and I played with her group. And then my friend got me to be a dungeon master for things.
And at first I was resistant, but I’m just like, it’s character improv, like nothing else, like honestly, like I’ve created characters on the spot and just like, and it really makes you like, and it’s not only like theatrical and performative, but there’s a whole bunch of logic and math involved. So you’re kind of using all of your, all gears at once.
That’s fantastic. So your girlfriend is involved as well?
Yeah, she’s actually a theater teacher. And so like we’re both kind of performers and that’s actually how we met. We went to college together and then we kind of went our separate ways when I moved to Japan.
And then when I moved back, she was in Hawaii, I was in Washington. And then she was like, you know, if you have never been to Hawaii before, I’ll be the hostess with the mostest. And I was like, I bet you will.
And then she came back.
That’s right. So we did long distance for about two years playing D&D on the weekends via Zoom.
Yeah, and honestly, I’d say it helped keep our relationship going. It was nuts. Because it gave us something to look forward to every week and we got to see each other for a few hours and play with her friends.
And it was almost like we weren’t 500 miles apart.
That’s fantastic.
So, but that’s not all I do, luckily. I mean, I still play music, love doing karaoke with friends when I can do, or have time to go out for that. And we have a lot of animals at our house though.
So we got three horses and a bunch of cats and a chicken.
And a donkey apparently.
That’s not our donkey, okay? No, no, that’s our neighbors. It’s our neighbors’ one.
Don’t we all have to keep out the noise from our neighbors, donkey?
My neighbor is such an ass.
Oh my God, that’s too much. I mean, I get doves outside and I have to deal with that noise. Fortunately, my booth takes care of that at this point.
But a donkey, I don’t think it would take care of that.
No, it’s hilarious. Like at 12 or one in the morning, you can hear, and then like a chorus of owls following afterwards.
Yeah, I don’t think hilarious is the word that would come to my mind when I heard that at one in the morning. So Paul, you have any words of wisdom for anybody getting into voiceover now and looking at audiobooks?
Yes, one thing I did take to heart early on was to outsource almost immediately your editing and proofing. Not only because you don’t see things that you’re missing, odds are if you make a mistake once, you’re going to make it again. But two, it frees you up.
I recently, well, the blog post I was talking about earlier with the Audible approved narrators that ACS asked me to do. I said it was like the heavens opened up when I was able to get the editing off my plate. Exactly, because I was able to do twice as much work.
I’m now almost always narrating two books at a time because I can send off the editing to one person, or one editor and proofing. Let me pick up on that, please. Sorry.
He’s passionate. He’s making mistakes. I finished my drink.
I got it. I understand.
In three, two, one. So now I can work on two projects at once because I can farm the editing out to one person with the one book, and the other book, I send out the editing to them and I get done twice as much work twice as fast and it’s just fabulous. So if you have the ability, and even if you don’t, I think everyone should outsource their editing and proofing as early as possible in their career.
Great. Good advice. I see that frequently.
Sean, what about you? As somebody who has been doing voice over for several years now and is now exploring it more, do you have any advice for anybody who’s looking at getting into audiobooks or who might be in audiobooks and might want to look at other genres?
Well, like I was saying a bit before, don’t try to jump in the deep end if you’re not quite ready. So find titles that you’re interested in, that you’re passionate about, because you’re going to give your best work that way, at least when you start. Then you can branch out and be like, all right, I can pretend to like this for 10 hours.
But do that, and start small, little things. Try some of the volunteer projects, like LibriVox or, what was I saying, Learning Ally, and to familiarize yourself with the process and have a process. Like, devote, I’m going to spend an hour on prepping this chapter.
I’m going to spend two hours on recording this chapter. I’m going to spend two hours on editing this chapter. Take lots of notes, make lots of…
I hear it again and again. Prep is what makes the world go round in audiobooks.
Yeah, no, that’s good. I like that. Well, this has been great, guys.
Where can people find you if they want to look for you online? I assume you have an online presence.
Go ahead, Sean.
Oh, go ahead? So, well, you can find me at my website. That’s daeleyvo.com.
It’s not spelled like my name. It’s spelled like you think. So dailyvo.com.
And you can also find me at the Global Voice Acting Academy website. So globalvoiceacademy.com.
That’s great. Yeah, we didn’t talk too much about GVAA, but I know I used to actually work with David Rosenthal. We worked on an ad campaign for A Place in San Jose.
It was one of those goofy things where it was through an agency that was representing me. And they were in San Francisco, and I lived in San Jose. And they were recording in San Francisco for this auto place that was about a mile and a half from my house in San Jose.
But every time we had to do a commercial, I had to drive up to San Francisco to do it. It was fine. It introduced me to some great voice actors for some really creative spots.
And David Rosenthal was one of them. We did several together.
That’s so cool.
So I worked with him. And then I actually coached with him for a short time when he was still… I think he’s in LA now.
Is that right?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Santa Monica, I think.
Yeah. He was still in San Francisco at the time. And I coached with him briefly to try to work on the commercial side more.
And then for a number of reasons, I ended up sort of stepping back from the voiceover world. But he was great. I loved working with David, and I know that he is at the helm or was.
He’s still at the helm of GVAA, isn’t he?
Yeah, he’s still our president.
Yeah.
I mean, he’s a great coach and a good friend. Yeah.
He is a great guy. I would recommend anything that David offers as something that would be valuable, that they could get something out of. So I have a lot of respect for the GVAA.
So I think it’s great that you’re working there.
Well, thank you. I have a lot of respect for you, too.
So, Paul, what about you? Where are you? Do you have an online presence?
Or are you, like your pseudonym, just sort of hidden in the shadows?
I am everywhere. You can find me at www.paulstefano.com. It’s with an F like Fred.
Or at Paul Stefano on Twitter. Or Paul underscore Stefano on Insta, like the kids like to say. Blah.
All right, cool, I will definitely include all that in the show notes, so people can find you when they want to look for you. And of course, you have a podcast, which is called…
Oh crap, I forgot about that.
I didn’t think that was the name of the podcast. What was it again?
Yeah, it’s The VO Meter and the website.
Measuring Your Voice Over Progress. Uh, we’re not doing the thing?
It’s called The VO Meter.
Measuring Your Voice Over Progress.
And you can find it at www.vometer.com.
Alright. And I will say, and you guys aren’t paying me to say this, I have enjoyed the podcast. I’ve gotten a lot of interesting tips out of it.
I’m clearly not focusing on a lot of the topics that you talk about. So there have been a few episodes where I thought, yeah, that’s not really something that applies to me. But there have been a lot of just little bits of information along the way whether it’s about gear or whether it’s about, you know, dealing with people in this relationship business or whatever.
I’ve really enjoyed the podcast. I think you’ve had a lot of really interesting people on and they’ve shared a lot of good information. So I will definitely recommend it, even though you’re not paying me to say that.
Thanks so much. I really appreciate it. Bring that cash to you, Rich.
I’m a big fan of your show. I listen to almost every episode.
Great. Great. And I know that, like you said, you mentioned Carol Monda.
She was one of my guests. And one of many who I have just a great deal of respect for. So many great people in this industry, both in audiobooks and in other genres.
And I know that Carol Monda crosses all those lines. She does commercials and all kinds of other stuff. So yeah, no, I’m glad you’re enjoying it.
And thanks so much for having us. This has been a blast.
Sure, yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for coming in.
I’ll see you in a few weeks.
Yes, absolutely. At APAC, I will be there.
Are you going to Johnny’s Splendiferous Workshop?
I’m not. I have been to Johnny’s Workshop the past couple of years, and this year, it just didn’t work out for me. And so I highly recommend it.
Are you planning to go?
Yeah, I’ll be there, too. I’m doing four days, actually, so I’ll be everywhere in New York that week.
Yeah, I highly recommend Johnny’s Workshop. The fact that I am not going this year is not in any way representative of my, saying there’s any problem with going.
The quality of content.
Absolutely not. It is a great workshop, and he has phenomenal people who participate in the workshop to give great information. So, highly recommend it.
I’m glad to hear that you’re going. I’m sorry I won’t be there, but I will certainly see you at the Boat Basin the night before. And at APAC the next day.
Sounds good.
And Sean, I assume that you are not going to be at APAC, or you would have mentioned it by now.
Oh, totally. I don’t feel like I’m not that constituency yet, but hopefully next year, I’ll have a bazillion titles under my belt and I’d be more than willing to go.
Oh, now see, I would say you do not need a bazillion titles under your belt to go to APAC. In fact, you want to start…
Oh, that’s great. I was not aware.
No, absolutely. You want to start building the relationships as quickly as possible in this relationship-driven business. So absolutely, I would not say to anyone that because they don’t have a lot of titles, that they shouldn’t go.
Just the opposite. Now, I realize at this point, it’s sold out, and so just hearing that from me, you’re not gonna get a ticket.
That’s the most expertly said.
It would be great for you, but you can’t go.
Yeah.
Too late at this point. Freaking elitists.
But no, I would absolutely recommend to anybody listening that if they’re thinking that they want to get into audiobooks, definitely recommended to go to APAC, even if they don’t have a single title. So, future reference, and hopefully next year we’ll see you there.
We’ve talked about industry conferences in the past, and I’m a big fan of saying that they’re a great way to just expose yourself to as much about the industry in a short amount of time. So I don’t know why I didn’t apply that to APAC.
Absolutely. And yeah, I would absolutely apply that to APAC as well. Really a good place to be.
Sweet.
So maybe next year we’ll see you there.
Hope so.
All right, well thanks guys for coming in. I hope the Hefeweizen was good and the, what was it again? The rye…
Black-eyed rye, yeah. I hope that ended up being a good drink, Paul.
Yeah, it was a little much. I drank like 32 ounces, but it was good.
A big gulp of rye. Yeah, not a good idea. So…
Your editor’s gonna get extra money this paycheck.
I will say that the Rum Manhattan, big thumbs up from me. And I think that half of that is the chocolate bitters.
Adding chocolate to this, perfect.
Thanks a lot for coming in, guys.
Thank you, Rich.
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